Benefit of the Doubt

15 Feb

Bauerle had bullsh1t artist extraordinaire I mean CIA jocksniffer I mean terrorism fetishist Douglas Hagmann on his program this morning. (Note as an aside that the Northeast Intelligence Network’s Wikipedia entry has been scrubbed).

They discussed whether or not the mall shooting in Salt Lake City was terrorism. Bauerle then modified that to “islamofascist” (whatever that means) terrorism.

I think intelligent people would agree that any mass shooting at a shopping mall is “terrorism”. That’s the end of the discussion. We should be concerned with all sorts of terrorism, in all shapes and sizes. Not just “islamofascist” terrorism.

You see, the kid who did the shooting was a Bosnian Muslim refugee, Sulejman Talović.

Hagmann first off reassures us that the family probably wasn’t here illegally. Whew.

But he adds that they were present during a Christian vs. Muslim war in the former Yugoslavia. So, I guess draw your own conclusion, right? Hagmann indicates that, since the kid was Muslim and was well-armed, and because Hagmann in his infinite knowitalldom about terrorism and terrorists knows that shopping malls are going to be targeted by Muslim terrorists. EVERYBODY PANIC!

  • The kid was well-armed in a country where anyone with a little bit of initiative could probably get a hold of a rocket launcher. Especially out west. Probably legally.
  • The kid was 18 years old and fled a horrific genocide with his family.
  • You see, Douglas Hagmann is a “terrorism expert” who isn’t fluent in Arabic, and probably not Serbo-Croatian, either.

    According to the Nezavisne Novine, an independent Serbian newspaper based in the Republika Srpska capital of Banja Luka,

    The citizens of the small town near Tuzla [Bosnian Federation] where Sulejman Talović and his family – his mother Sabira, father Suljo, and sister – lived as refugees after evacuating their native Cerska near Vlasenica, are shocked by the news of his crimes in Salt Lake City.

    They learned from family throughout America of the killings that the 18 year-old Sulejman committed. None of them know the details, but they cannot imagine what caused Sulejman to shoot at innocent civilians.

    “I know the entire Talović family, and they’re all such good and fine people, and I can’t believe that it’s true that Suljo’s son shot those people. Here, they were wonderful friends, but there, who knows what happened? The kid probably started taking drugs, because all of our people who go to America lose control of their kids, said Omer Johić from Cerska near Vlasenica, who was a friend of the Talovićes before the war.

    Zijad ÄŒerkić, their first friend there, says that the Talović family moved to a town near Tuzla in 1994, and occupied a house that a Serb family had abandoned. Poverty followed them until their arrival in America eight years ago. Suljo performed odd jobs for little money, working in the fields or chopping wood. His wife helped out, and she’d bring Sulejman and his sister along, because they didn’t have anyone to watch them.

    The friends remember that Sulejman would pick corn in the fields because he was bored. The boy wanted a normal childhood, playing with friends, games. Aside from that, he was hungry more often than he was full.

    People who know the Talovićes imagine that this poverty in his childhood, a year of hiding in the woods before they reached Tuzla, left marks on the little boy.

    “They dreamed of America. Sabira went with the kids in 1998, because she had a brother and other relatives there, and they helped her. After a year, Suljo followed. They hoped that they’d have a better life there. They’d had it with everything here, they didn’t even have the clothes they needed”, remembers Zijad ÄŒerkić.

    Refugees from Cerska who still live in that town near Tuzla, wonder what sort of fate will strike Sulja, Sabira, and their daughter, after this shocking killing. They fear that the American government will send them back to Bosnia and Herzegovina. They say the 18 year old Sulejman ruined the American dream that they had held since their exile from Cerska.

    Safet Bajrić from Cerska, whose sister also lives in America, says that he’s sad for the Talovic’s unhappy fate. He recounts that, after their departure from Bosnia, they had helped many others to reach the promised land. They sent papers to their relatives and thanks to them, most of the Talović family is far from their hometown.

    It couldn’t possibly be a troubled refugee teenage kid who saw his entire life blow up in his face at a young, impressionable age, fled genocide, lived in the woods for a year before finding safety as a refugee, and then – living in poverty – moved to a completely different environment (Salt Lake City ain’t the Cerska enclave) where his family went to in order to find a better life, and peace, may have had a hard time of it putting the horror of war behind them and incorporating their traditions with their new life in the Wasatch, now could it? Could it be depression? Psychosis? Something that mental health treatment might have prevented if only…?

    30 Responses to “Benefit of the Doubt”

    1. Haterade February 15, 2007 at 12:44 pm #

      I’m as big a Bauerle basher as anyone , and Doug Hagmann is an idiot. I agree that the chance that this tragedy was linked to “organized” terrorism is minute, but near the end of your post you started to sound a bit like the ‘ol “blame the system” rationale was emerging. Was this kid most likely mentally ill and scarred from his past ? Yes … but the responsibility for the murders lies squarely at his feet.

    2. BuffaloPundit February 15, 2007 at 12:52 pm #

      No doubt. My point was that the Bauerle/Hagmann axis of ignorance was assigning jihad to this kid’s motive when the real culprit is, most likely, something far more pedestrian than that.

      If Klebold and Harris were named Silajdzic and Omeric, they’d assign jihadist motive to Columbine, too.

    3. leda February 15, 2007 at 1:24 pm #

      I think it’ ridiculus to even think that this was muslim terorist and such.
      this young boy had problems in his childhood and they left a mark,but that is not excuse.Would you call a boy who did shoutind at the scool a terorist?no…Right now in America we have a lots of young,angry teenagers and I din’t know if anyone knows a reson why are they angry?
      I think that this family went to so much truble that they don’t need added names like “muslim terorist”
      can we ever learn to separate a muslim people from muslim terorist.
      they are not all terorist.
      It’s all very sad and my condolences to Talovic family and all the families who lost someone in this tragedy.

    4. Haterade February 15, 2007 at 2:05 pm #

      Agreed … but BP – you have to remember that “we are STILL fighting a war against terrorist SCUM-bags”…
      I didn’t hear that today, when I was in my vehicle he was talking about the peanut butter recall – which I’m certain was caused by islamofascist terrorists… however the “lame stream” media will undoubtedly cover that fact up. Thank God for Larry Hagman & Tom Bauerle.

    5. RandomThoughts101 February 15, 2007 at 2:42 pm #

      Larry Hagmann or Doug Hagmann?

      I’m confused.

      Who shot JR?

    6. BuffaloPundit February 15, 2007 at 3:10 pm #

      Who shot JR?

      Kristin Shepard, who may have spent time in a Madrassa.

    7. thesportsroadtrip February 15, 2007 at 3:33 pm #

      Didn’t I see Kristin wear her hijab on one of those episodes?

      Seriously, though, why do you people still tune in to this loathsome moron???!!!

      The entire breakup of Yugoslavia has been so tragic…such a wonderful country and beautiful people and so torn up over ridiculous ancient hatreds. We have no clue what ordinary people went through there just to survive. Surely that was at the root of this young man’s troubles.

    8. LC Scotty February 15, 2007 at 3:36 pm #

      This is a sterling example of why I come here (and to a select few other left-of center blogs). I don’t think anyone on the right side of the ‘sphere has put this in these terms, and it didn’t occur to me to look at it this way either. I have to admit my first image upon hearing of this was some gun toting a**hole for Allah shouting Allahu-Ackbar while mowing people down.

      I think the reason some people jump to these conclusions is that stuff like tis has happened here, vis the UNC Chapel Hill jihadi SUV driver, and the kid out in LA (IIRC, maybe Seatle) who shot up some Israeli charity.

      So anyway, thanks for the food for thought.

    9. Train Reck February 15, 2007 at 3:49 pm #

      Well, he was muslim, and his actions were terroristic in nature, but HEAVEN FORBID we put the words Muslim & terrorist side by side in one sentence, because now days a statement of fact is politically incorrect. No wonder we can’t get a statement of truth out of the left today or their media.

    10. BuffaloPundit February 15, 2007 at 3:54 pm #

      HEAVEN FORBID we put the words Muslim & terrorist side by side in one sentence, because now days a statement of fact is politically incorrect.

      Well, then whenever a Christian person commits a crime involving loss of life, I’m sure you’ll react with righteous indignation that his/her religion isn’t specified, resulting in “Christian terrorist”.

      The point I’m trying to make is that we oughtn’t ascribe jihadist mens rea when it’s not at all clear that that’s what’s going on in this case. Maybe he was a jihadist, maybe not. But I won’t label him as such until I find out more.

      What did you find out, Train?

    11. Train Reck February 15, 2007 at 4:04 pm #

      Buffalo Pundit: Perhaps just prior to one putting a bullet between your eyes you will become enlightened.

    12. Bob Catalano February 15, 2007 at 4:04 pm #

      We don’t really know why this punk pulled the trigger. Too soon to tell.

      Bauerle and Hageman, those CIA wannabbes with the cereal box badges, dont know either, but that doesn’t stop them from insinuating ‘islamofascism’ motives. Paranoia is good for ratings, I guess.

      (FYI – people in the know don’t connect Islamists to fascism, but the term is a BS-Rushism and survives like a bad penny)

      But just because Bauerle and Hageman find conspiracies under every rock, doesn’t mean there are not young jihadist freelancers out there. There are. Bin Laden has spend the last decade encouraging jihad by individuals around the world. As Ex-CIA, Bin Laden hunter,Michael Scheuer (Imperial Hubris) reminds us (at his Canisius lecture) Alcaida declared war on the west some years ago but the west is still in denial, but Alcaida is deadly serious about it, and will attack up with everthing they have in every way, including nuclear detonations in this country.

      As far as this killer-kid in Utah goes, we simply dont know yet.

    13. BuffaloPundit February 15, 2007 at 4:13 pm #

      My statement:

      we oughtn’t ascribe jihadist mens rea when it’s not at all clear that that’s what’s going on in this case. Maybe he was a jihadist, maybe not. But I won’t label him as such until I find out more.

      What did you find out, Train?

      Train’s response:

      Buffalo Pundit: Perhaps just prior to one putting a bullet between your eyes you will become enlightened.

      Translation of Train’s response:

      I don’t know what the fuck I’m talking about, but the phrase “bullet in the face” is scary, and it’s mostly muslims ‘n shit who do that sort of thing, so I’ll go with that.

    14. Train Reck February 15, 2007 at 4:18 pm #

      Buffalo – since when has the Christians declared war against all non-christians. Give me a break man…what has your brain so scrambled that you can no longer make sense of fact? You must be a liberal. I don’t see the left giving our president the benefit of the doubt, yet we MUST offer the benefit of the doubt to this young killer. You people are truly sickos.

    15. hank kaczmarek February 15, 2007 at 4:47 pm #

      Interesting comments.
      Once again, Not all Muslims are terrorists, but most Terrorists are Muslims.

      As for the rest, remember it’s NOT OK to discuss Obama’s Religion in the Media, but it IS OK to discuss Mitt Romney’s Religion, ALL DAY.

      What’s the deal with that?

    16. BuffaloPundit February 15, 2007 at 4:56 pm #

      It’s the secret underwear, Hank. The secret underwear.

    17. Anthropologist February 15, 2007 at 5:05 pm #

      If it looks like a rat, smells like a rat, it most likely is a rat.
      If his first name doesn’t sound familier, go to your history books concerning the Ottaman empire.
      You can find a clue as to his faith and the legacy of his namesake.

    18. hank kaczmarek February 15, 2007 at 6:45 pm #

      Secret Underwear! Good God Alan, the Pandora’s box you’ve opened up!
      Wait until MSNBC gets a load of this!
      Add the underwear, and the Masonic symbolism on it, and HOO BOY!

      Back in 1989, I sat in Lodge in Hamburg with Jack Kemp. After the degree, I told him I’d never seen him on C-Span with a Masonic or Shriner Lapel pin on—He looked at me and said “Are you NUTS? About 3/4 of the men in the House are Masons, but its suicide to make it public”.

      Barack MUST start wearing a Koufti and growing a beard now, so Hillary can stop fretting about him.

    19. Carl February 16, 2007 at 3:34 am #

      TSRP: Because WBEN programs to the 55-to-death crowd. That’s why. As well as to people who aren’t scared out of their wits already by Fox Noise.

      Train Reck: Why the hell are you even here? Don’t you have another site to troll around at?

    20. Chris February 16, 2007 at 12:53 pm #

      >Barack MUST start wearing a Koufti and growing a beard now, so Hillary can stop fretting about him.

      Umm.. Isn’t Obama a Christian?

    21. Haterade February 16, 2007 at 1:46 pm #

      WTF is a “koufti” ?

      The hat muslims wear is called a kufi.

    22. Bob Catalano February 16, 2007 at 2:50 pm #

      A misspelling?
      Really?
      Who did that?
      Who mispelled ‘kufi”?
      Was it int3entional?
      Did he insert a “3”, just to throw us off?
      Call Bauerle
      Call Larry Hageman.
      Round up the Dallas posse.
      Let’s catch the sumbitch and,
      drag him out into the street…
      And shoot him like a dog.

    23. Jonathan Oberinsk February 16, 2007 at 2:58 pm #

      You guys certainly have it in for Hageman. I agree that Hageman is trying to alarm people, but I wouldn’t call it “fear-mongering”. Baurele, on the other hand is trying to be a showman and stay interesting to listen to – typical.

      Anyway, did you see the video that was captured by someone in the mall during the shooting? You can hear the shooter yelling “Allah Akbar” right on the video. So does that change anyone’s mind? Sounds like it was Islamic-motivated terrorism to me.

      As for “fear-mongering”, how can you not be alarmed by the fact that killers motivated by Islam are targeting us in places like shopping malls in the USA? Would you rather just ignore it and not hear about this threat? It is a threat, isn’t it?

    24. Haterade February 16, 2007 at 3:19 pm #

      Well, Bob … when someone is trolling – and trying to make a point that isn’t THERE… I at least expect them to spell correctly.

      Is k-o-u-f-t-i really a misspelling of k-u-f-i , or does it just show that someone is clueless and just copying posts they read elsewhere ?

    25. Tatonka February 16, 2007 at 5:15 pm #

      Uh, what Chris>/b> said. Obama isn’t a Muslim, so why would he wear a kufi? He’s a Christian, and I’ve seen several articles that addressed the topic of his religion, so how is it “not OK to discuss his religion”? (And I’m not even counting the Fox “News”/Washington Times bogus story about his supposed education in a madrassa.)

      Typical fact-free post by Hank. No wonder he still supports Bush.

    26. BobCat February 16, 2007 at 5:18 pm #

      Hey Hat, if misspelling were a crime, I’d would have faced the firing squad years ago.

      And Jon, I also saw the video in the mall and heard the shots, but didnt hear the guy yelling. Maybe I missed it. Freelance jihadists/terrorists will be a fact of life and largely unpreventable in a free society. But Bauerle and Hageman jump the gun on every incident, hyping it to the roof, usually without any proof. That’s fearmongering.

      Rear terrorism is one thing, hype is another.

      Hageman’s Northeast Intelligence ‘network’ is an allusion, in my book. I think he’s a guy with a PI license, sitting at a keyboard in his underware in his basement. i.e. A wannabee. Important covert intelligence is gathered in secrecy and funneled to appropiate agencies….and NOT broadcast on the F’ing radio!

    27. realist February 16, 2007 at 6:28 pm #

      Johnathan O :
      If trying to alarm someone isn’t “fear mongering” – then what IS it ?

      If Bauerle is trying to “stay interesting” – maybe he should stop being a one trick pony. Why not get a different terrorism “expert” once in a while ? Maybe one with a LITTLE bit of credibility ? I thought his show during the Oct. storm was informative, and he did a good job. During the “taxpayer revolt” he was decent too, but overall, his material and act is stale.

    28. BobCat February 16, 2007 at 9:03 pm #

      Experienced intelligence pros – the Agency analyists – know that thousands of pieces of intel will be gathered, most of which means nothing, has no causal relationship to anything, proves nothing, means nothing and is worthless. But they are hoping to screen-out the few, true nuggets of intell from among all the chaff.

      Dick Cheney’s intelligence guy, Douglas Feith built the bogus case for going into Iraq, using garbage intel that other agencies had already discredited and thrown out. He is either a fool or a war criminal.

      Bauerle and Hageman can’t tell the difference either. So they insinuate that all explosions and unexplained crimes are sabotage or terror related.
      That’s fear mongering.

      Calling 911 and reporting a guy in the mall with a gun is not. That’s just plain vanilla fear.

      I don’t think any real intel pro would appear with Bauerle because of his reputation as a jerk.

      Today, after 4 years of war in Iraq… finally….the war was debated in the House of Reps and a historic vote was cast. Not a peep of comment from the ‘voice of Buffalo”. No sir. The people of WNY will not hear any criticism of G.W.Bush. No way. Not as long as Tim Wenger is in charge.

      WBEN radio is a disgrace.

    29. Haterade February 18, 2007 at 11:40 pm #

      Me too, BobCat …. but my point wasn’t about a misspelling as much as it was Hank trying to paint Obama as a muslim extremist – when he isn’t even muslim. I saw another post on a site hankie frequents – with the same incorrect wording. Many moons ago it was proven on this site by several posters that NC hankie copies most of his posts from other (usually right-wing) sources, and regurgitates them here.

    30. Tatonka February 19, 2007 at 11:15 am #

      Maybe “koufti” = “kufi” + “mufti”, with a little pouf (Hank) thrown in? 🙂

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