Amateur Mortgagee

21 Oct

Add that to Chris Collins’ resume. According to today’s Buffalo News, Collins lent $215,000 to an East Side landlord to cover eight properties. When the debt went bad, Collins had two choices:

1. Write the debt off, take a tax break, and basically let the ownerless, moneyless, interestless properties deteriorate until such time as they become a public nuisance slotted for publicly financed demolition; or

2. Foreclose on the debt and make an effort to re-sell the property by making the bare minimum in improvements needed to bring it up to habitable condition.

Choice number one contributes to vacancy and boarded-up houses and blight and the further destruction of neighborhoods in the already troubled East Side. Choice number two may take more effort, but it gives the investor at least an opportunity to recoup some of the lent money, and helps to at least stanch the exodus from the East Side.

What Collins did is MBBA writ small.

Responding to News inquiries, Collins sounds like my 7-year old:

“What was I supposed to do?” asked Collins. “I’ve never had any ownership in these properties, and I’ve never had any interest in being a landlord. I don’t have the wherewithal to find tenants and manage properties.”

Collins admits it was a mistake to invest in the rental properties and said he paid the price — a loss of about $200,000 on his investment. He also said he never knew about code violations at the properties.

“It did not make me happy,” he said of the loans he wrote off. “For the last 10 years, I never saw a penny.”

Housing advocates, concerned about disinvestment in Buffalo’s poorer neighborhoods, see a flaw in Collins’ thinking.

Read the whole thing.

I think that Collins’ choice in this instance speaks volumes.

(Photo Credit: FixBuffalo)

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57 Responses to “Amateur Mortgagee”

  1. Size Nine October 21, 2007 at 9:34 pm #

    Oh great. Now we have to choose between an Old First Ward machine politician and a slum housing “investor.”

  2. Michele Johnson October 21, 2007 at 10:14 pm #

    Alan..please move to the East Side we need you here!
    I have now been accused of being a “Keane supporter” on a ‘political website’ I dont know him and for the record have been on the fence on who to vote for.My point was someone who is as bright and articulate as Collins seems to be could of figured out #2 was the better way to handle this situation.. Not just financially but also for the community.

  3. In Da Buff October 21, 2007 at 10:14 pm #

    Hey at least we have two people who sound like seven year olds to choose from for CE…maybe the next debate can be billed as “Are you smarter than a seven year old?”

  4. Fed-Up in WNY October 21, 2007 at 10:27 pm #

    This is the guy who we are supposed to give our vote to to lead Erie County into a better way of life? 😦

  5. Mike Walsh October 21, 2007 at 10:40 pm #

    Sounds like a simple morality play when you read spun articles from the local rag.

    If you believe every story in the media, I’ve got some land to sell you in ___________.

  6. Sally Would October 21, 2007 at 11:08 pm #

    BP you are sounding more like a Democrat hackster everyday

  7. Mike Walsh October 21, 2007 at 11:16 pm #

    Sally, they can’t find any dirt on the guy so they have to drag out an old business deal that went sour and put some kind of spin on it.

  8. starbuck October 21, 2007 at 11:23 pm #

    What occured to me when reading the Bflo News story about this is on the one hand ES advocates want to encourage attempts at rehabbing and rescuing distressed houses.

    Understandably so.

    Likewise they also want to encourage people to invest some capital to help make that happen. People with willingness and skills to do rehab sometimes don’t have the funds or ability to borrow enough.

    But inherently, such attempts are very risky and in recent years I’d figure it’s safe to say that most fail and sometimes demolitions eventually result.

    So when someone such as the guy Collins loaded the money to makes at least a sincere good faith effort and it doesn’t work, then I do understand why they do need to be held to account on housing codes and other laws such as those against slumlording of flipping… I agree with all that… but to go further than that and make personal attacks against people for failing just seems counter productive in the long run.

    Quite often on FixBuffalo or sometimes on BR, some ES house in need of rescuing is pictured along with pleas for somebody to please pretty please try finding effort and money to save it.

    But if people who try that and fail, and those who loaned money to them, are then publicly raked over the coals and sought out for pounds of flesh – do we suppose that will encourage or discourage future people from trying a project like that or making loans for it?

    If the “rule” from now on is that nobody should ever loan money for an ES house rehab project UNLESS THEY SWEAR TO ADD MORE MONEY AND NEVER WALK AWAY, then do we suppose having that “rule” will increase or decrease the number of people willing to try helping finace such efforts in the future?

    It’s not like this was a case of slumlording or flipping. There was a certain amount of money loaned, no promised for additional money, the whole thing failed unfortunately, and seems to me that’s about it.

    What am I missing?

    Keane has built up a pretty nice nest egg apparently, comapred to most people. How much has he ever invested in ES housing? $200K? More? Less? Zero?

    So the moral of the story is that it’s perfectly fine to invest ZERO in ES housing rehab projects… investing ZERO will never be criticised… but investing 200K is something to be condemned if the effort doesn’t succeed?

  9. Sally Would October 21, 2007 at 11:24 pm #

    Mike

    I feel bad for Michele Johnston who got basically used by the Buffalo News or should I say duped for this article.

    I hate when people use the problems on the East Side for political gain without really doing something to help the East Side

  10. Mike Walsh October 21, 2007 at 11:29 pm #

    Excellent points, Starbuck. Elections are all about finding a flaw in personalities and not issues.

  11. Mike Walsh October 21, 2007 at 11:36 pm #

    Sally, I saw that story in the News this morning and immediately dismissed it as bogus.

    I know how these writers operate. They don’t tell you the whole story and quote people out of context. They drag in people for comments like Michelle Johnson and Marlies Wesolowski, and use them for validation.

    Yellow journalism and sensationalism are supposedly taboo according to Journalism 101, yet the media uses those techniques and has find crafted them over the years.

    Collins is stupid for even responding.

    I’d like to know why nobody ever demands accountability from the media

  12. Mike Walsh October 21, 2007 at 11:39 pm #

    Sally, I saw that story in the News this morning and immediately dismissed it as bogus.

    I know how these writers operate. They don’t tell you the whole story and quote people out of context. They drag in people for comments like Michelle Johnson and Marlies Wesolowski, and use them for validation.

    Yellow journalism and sensationalism are supposedly taboo according to Journalism 101, yet the media uses those techniques and has fine crafted them over the years.

    Collins is stupid for even responding.

    I’d like to know why nobody ever demands accountability from the media

  13. In Da Buff October 21, 2007 at 11:44 pm #

    I do wonder who gave the lead to Mr. Fairbanks at the Snewz for this piece…wink…wink…the Keane crew is digging…

  14. Sally Would October 21, 2007 at 11:52 pm #

    Mike

    This is such an obvious hit piece

    I am surprised that BP bought into it

    Maybe BP is just a Keane stooge now

  15. Fed-Up in WNY October 22, 2007 at 12:01 am #

    First of all, I hate when something negative is said about a candidate they like, those people always call it “spin” and claim it’s all taken out of context. But when it’s all in the negative for the other candidate, you all shine with a smile and say it’s all relevant.

    I agree and I feel bad for Michele as well, becuase she works so hard for the Eastside communities and for her comments regarding housing she is being tossed into a negative spotlight.

  16. Mike Walsh October 22, 2007 at 12:02 am #

    Sally, the unfortunate thing is that we make judgements on people from snippets of information. That’s the way we’ve been conditioned by the media.

  17. Mike Walsh October 22, 2007 at 12:11 am #

    “First of all, I hate when something negative is said about a candidate they like, those people always call it “spin” and claim it’s all taken out of context. But when it’s all in the negative for the other candidate, you all shine with a smile and say it’s all relevant.”

    Fedup, if this was directed at my comments, let me state that I’m not a supporter of either candidate. As a matter of fact, I equate this with the conservative smear campaigns against the Clinton’s, albeit on a much smaller scale. It’s the same tactics except the local stuff is amateur hour and easy to see through.

  18. Buffalopundit October 22, 2007 at 4:50 am #

    The Republican hackarama comes out in droves to accuse me of Democratic hackery. How quaint.

    1. Hit piece? I didn’t see anyone dispute one single, solitary fact in that article.

    2. Personality issue? Perhaps.

    Think of it this way – Collins is a guy who is running for CE so he can help Erie County, right? He has everyone’s best interests at heart and really wants to pull us out of the muck and mire.

    Yet when push came to shove, Collins’ choice was not to help the community in which he had invested, but instead to just bolt. Now, those buildings are demolished or about to be demolished on the public’s dime.

    I’m sure it’s a smart way to do business, but remember: that choice of action was in only one person’s best interests.

  19. Stephen Nazwisko October 22, 2007 at 6:55 am #

    So you’re collective arguments is that this article a reach because he not actually the person slumming…

    …he’s a slumlord financier.

    You’re right, that’s definitely way better

    ick.

  20. Bruce October 22, 2007 at 7:00 am #

    Wow, so two people, Mike Walsh and Sally Would, who I’ve never seen post here before suddenly materialize to post like 80% of the comments in this thread? Sounds like the Reynolds (oops I mean Collins) kiddies are worried.

  21. hank October 22, 2007 at 8:28 am #

    Oh Bruce—Mike Walsh will lock up and die.
    He’s posted here before many times, one of the Ronulans from FNY.
    I don’t think he’s a Reynolds supporter.

  22. Chet Morton October 22, 2007 at 8:33 am #

    Appropriate comment, Bruce. I agree. I’ve never seen “Mike Walsh” or “Sally Would” post here before.

    Does anyone for a minute believe that Mr. Collins, or any of the various investors who buy multiple properties in the city (or provide funding for the purchase of multiple homes) is actually doing this out of charity or benevolence? They are doing so to make money. Pure and simple capitalism. Nothing wrong with that. But to suggest Mr. Collins was doing a favor, or acting out of a community interest in providing capital for the purchase of the properties is not supported by the evidence. He ran from that investment as fast as he could.

    This issue cropping up now is interesting and timely given Mr. Collins’ position opposing the County’s sale of tax liens to XSPAND. Kind of makes him look a little hypocritical and a little conflicted.

    If he is County Executive, will he run away from obligations as fast as he did this one?

  23. Buffalopundit October 22, 2007 at 8:43 am #

    Mike Walsh has posted here before, and someone has posted before from “Sally’s” IP address, but very infrequently.

    The pushback from the Collins people is much like Collins’ own response: “What was I supposed to doooooo?”

    Collins at least had the stones to admit to it all.

  24. BuffaloGeek October 22, 2007 at 8:59 am #

    Alan, I would never accuse you of being a shill for the party, but you’re buying into a bunch of overblown BS that was dug up as oppo research. There isn’t much out there on Collins, so this will have to do. Unfortunately for Keane, this news will only hurt Collins in the city where he was guaranteed to get less than 20% of the vote anyhow.

    I firmly agree with Starbuck on this issue and I’m also surprised that you fail to do the same.

  25. BuffaloGeek October 22, 2007 at 9:08 am #

    I have seen several allusions to the fact that Mr. Collins himself bought the properties or was involved in the active marketing and/or management of the properties. That is clearly not the case. He loaned money to someone who was involved and most likely marketed himself as someone who could turn a property in the real estate business.

    When that turned out to not be the case, Collins wrote off his losses and walked. This left the the initial solicitor holding the bag. And he should have been held accountable, which it would appear he was.

    Also, to suggest that Collins should have “foreclosed” on the loan as if he were M&T fucking Bank is ludicrous, it really is. Lets get some perspective here folks.

  26. Mike Walsh October 22, 2007 at 9:40 am #

    Geek, this is the old guilt by association game. The landlord is clearly the responsible party in this case.

    Now, if government had the same sense to cut losses and move on from failed investments/programs we might get somewhere.

  27. Eric P. October 22, 2007 at 10:17 am #

    Do the math. Approximately 200k secured by 8 properties in an areas where 15k has tended to represent the upper end of the value range (based on sales of residential properties over the last 6 years on the following streets – Clark, Playter, Woltz, Koons, Paderwski, & Sweet). These mortgage(s) didn’t make sense in the late 1990’s – what was Collins thinking?

    Cutting his losses, not persuing foreclosure actions, and not re-investing / re-habbing these properties was where Collins finally made some business-sense. I question Collins’ judgement in making these loans on properties that had purchase prices ranging from 17k to 28k. Of the 26 properties owned by Stuebe (6 of which are classified as residential lots), there aren’t 8 in the bunch that could be sold for a sum totalling +/- 200k – even if total re-habs had already been completed. This would require easch of these properties establishing a new “world record” for each of the respective streets.

    I just don’t understand why Collins would have made such loan(s) based on such inadequate collateral. I have to assume he was investing in the personal magnetism or perceived abilities of Mr. Stuebe.

    BTW: I am not a “city-hater” by any estimate. I would love to see the East Side revitalized and improved. I think that the re-hab of existing homes is preferable to building flimsy, new, subsidized homes in this area. I also don’t immediately classify all property investors on the East Side as the “bad-guy”.

  28. Buffalopundit October 22, 2007 at 10:31 am #

    I think Starbuck does make some good points, although the well-Keane-didn’t-invest-at-all argument is an irrelevant distraction from the point.

    Eric makes a better point, IMHO, about the economic viability of the investments from the get-go.

    When a mortgage is executed, it gives the mortgagee the right to foreclose & auction. At least that way, whatever decay the houses already have has a chance at being halted, regardless of whether he pays to rehab them or not. In that instance, even the tenants would have had an opportunity to bid.

    Instead, by walking away, the tenants were out and the buildings continued on vacant & the decay was hastened. Who knows what would have happened if he had tried to foreclose? I don’t. Upshot of it is that he never bothered. That’s a shame.

  29. eliz. October 22, 2007 at 12:21 pm #

    These actions are typical for “investors” throughout the East and West sides. There isn’t any malice–they aren’t consciously trying to destroy neighborhoods–but they also aren’t considering that these are real communities where people have to deal daily with the aftermath of such actions.

    I don’t see anyone I would vote for on either side here.

  30. Paul Francis October 22, 2007 at 1:19 pm #

    Collins did what any investor who made an unwise loan would do. If you were him, Pundit, would you manage your money wisely and forgive the loan, taking only a $200,000 loss, or would you take over your borrower’s mess and have an even bigger hit?

  31. starbuck October 22, 2007 at 2:10 pm #

    I think Starbuck does make some good points, although the well-Keane-didn’t-invest-at-all argument is an irrelevant distraction from the point.

    Thanks. And I hope it was clear from my context that I wasn’t slamming Keane as a candidate for not investing in ES rehabs. I agree that in no way makes him a worse CE choice. Other things do, IMO, but certainly not that. What I was trying to illustrate is the “safer” approach is the one he and 99%+ of upper income people follow – to not invest or have any involvement, and thus no risk of this type of controversy. I might’ve made same point better by using some example other than Keane, or just a John Doe.

  32. starbuck October 22, 2007 at 2:33 pm #

    they aren’t consciously trying to destroy neighborhoods–but they also aren’t considering that these are real communities where people have to deal daily with the aftermath of such actions

    eliz – just wondering:
    Are you saying in from the ES community’s perspective the better thing for Collins to have done would’ve been to just refuse to loan the 200K at all in the first place?

    That’s what confuses me about this. If capital is needed, then isn’t it good when it comes? High risk implies most will fail. I realize the ideal might be if every investor was willing to promise unending committment, but if that’s the bar being set won’t it eliminate pretty much all potential investors? How does it hurt the community more to try saving a few houses but fail in the attempt, as compared to nobody trying at all and have those same houses doomed quicker? Maybe I’m still missing something about all this.

  33. Haterade October 22, 2007 at 3:01 pm #

    The funniest part to me was Collins saying he didn’t have the “wherewithall” to either rehab or sell the homes … yet he wants to run the county ?

  34. M RodgersM Rodgers October 22, 2007 at 3:11 pm #

    Okay, first order of business, the mortgagor would not be notified of any violations until such time as the case was written for Housing Court and they (the mortgagor) placed a lis pendens on the property (notification of possible foreclosure). If they placed a lis pendens on the property, and the inspector was notofied of this filing, the inspector could also cite the mortgagor.

    Second, the system as it stands does not work for the best of the neighborhoods. I figure, to really afford the neighborhoods best practices if a property is in dire distress, the lein holder (mortgagor or financial institution) as well as the insurance company should be copied of the letter of violation and/or notice to appear in Housing Court.

    It’s real easy to criticize and moan, it’s harder to affect proactive solutions. Who’s ready to be part of a proactive solution? We have to fix the system – NOW.

  35. Haterade October 22, 2007 at 3:28 pm #

    BTW … I remember a “Sally” with her lips firmly implanted on the sweaty ass of Tom Reynolds. Gotta be the same one …..

  36. eliz. October 22, 2007 at 3:42 pm #

    Starbuck,

    Yes, I do think there should be accountability. As Marilyn says, the system does not work properly.

    This is not the same as buying stocks that don’t work out. And really I don’t see who benefits from the artifically-prolonged lives of a few houses, where no real improvements are made. The houses sit there, casting a pall of blight that much longer.

    Real investment in communities does not work that way.

  37. Chris October 22, 2007 at 4:52 pm #

    Weak post Alan.

    If this was on David’s blog it would be one thing but it is not. In fact, there is nothing on Fix Buffalo on this situation. Because of this, your “commentary” on the issue is questionable.

    Could this situation gone better? Sure. But at the end of the day, all this does is only reinforce those with money to not invest in the east side. The main reason why I think David is quiet on the issue.

    Why is something that happened in the 90’s coming up now? Well the tide is turning on Keane and his crew is digging for whatever they can find. Sadly by you posting this, your blog has taken a huge step back in creditably. Did Len give you a call and thank you for your post?

    The only thing that sounds like a 7-year old is this childish post. Welcome to the machine Alan. You fit in well.

  38. starbuck October 22, 2007 at 6:54 pm #

    Yes, I do think there should be accountability

    Ok, and there was accountability: the owner received penalties from Housing Court, and the lender lost about 200K. What more accountability should there be to a private lender? If more accountability is desired from private lenders, then people should work to pass laws that enforce it – but realize the more road blocks you put up, the less likely private individuals are to ever invest in that sot of thing. Maybe that’s what people want for some reason.

    And really I don’t see who benefits from the artifically-prolonged lives of a few houses, where no real improvements are made. The houses sit there, casting a pall of blight that much longer.

    Obviously anybody who knows in advance that the result would be just “prolonging the lives of a few houses” would not loan money in the first place. Those sorts of investments are made, perhaps in most cases naively, with hopes that the whole thing will succeed.

    This is not the same as buying stocks

    And how. If in 1998 he had put that 215K in an S&P 500 stock fund, its value would’ve doubled by now ($430,365 by my quick calculation, minus fund fees) and we wouldn’t be discussing this. An over $600K difference. And those houses might’ve been all demolished much sooner. Yeah I guess that proves he’s a jerk. ~eye roll~

  39. Buffalopundit October 22, 2007 at 8:31 pm #

    “Chris” (2 posts up) gets the booby prize for most asinine comment. Let’s examine.

    If this was on David’s blog it would be one thing but it is not. In fact, there is nothing on Fix Buffalo on this situation. Because of this, your “commentary” on the issue is questionable.

    I didn’t realize David had the market cornered on east side housing issues. Also, he hasn’t been posting very frequently and his last post was dated Saturday .

    Could this situation gone better? Sure.

    Bingo.

    But at the end of the day, all this does is only reinforce those with money to not invest in the east side. The main reason why I think David is quiet on the issue.

    You can read minds, can you?

    Why is something that happened in the 90’s coming up now?

    Is that like one of Illuzzi’s rhetorical questions?

    Well the tide is turning on Keane and his crew is digging for whatever they can find.

    And they found something the facts of which have yet to be disputed.

    Sadly by you posting this, your blog has taken a huge step back in creditably. Did Len give you a call and thank you for your post?

    No. Because I read it in the newspaper and commented on it. That’s sort of what I do. But this IP from warmer climes has posted exactly twice on this site, and I find it utterly fascinating how many people have come on here to express how shocked, SHOCKED! they are. But you took an extra step and accuse me of hackery while you yourself engage in hackery. Irony.

    The only thing that sounds like a 7-year old is this childish post. Welcome to the machine Alan. You fit in well.

    It must give you some sort of satisfaction to make no point whatsoever. Yawn, bitch.

  40. Ms. Curious October 22, 2007 at 11:53 pm #

    The issues: 1. By taking his losses and running, Chris Collins left the taxpayers of Buffalo holding the bag; in having to demolish properties he and his partner should have done. 2. Houses on those streets were selling for as little as $2,000.00 per house, if an investor did what Scott Witzig, The infamous slumlord from Texas, did a few years ago. He bought houses cheap, sold the ones he could for three to four times what he paid for them and abandoned the rest for the city to demolish. Sounds familiar Mr. Collins? 3. There are still four of Collins’ ‘investments’ still out there needing to be demolished. He claims he never saw these houses he invested in. Maybe I am the only one curious but I would have to go and see what my money is buying. And then he calls his partner an honorable man. Sir, honorable men do not walk away from their responsibilities. Will he use a few of his millions of dollars to help a struggling city out or will the mayor have to hold the tin cup out as Esmonde talked about in his article? Buffalo has been brought to her knees by crime, illegal drugs, poverty and loss of jobs. It has also been harmed by investors who buy cheap houses at auctions, pay someone to put a coat of paint on them and then sell these same houses to people who should not qualify for a loan,(based on income) for three to four times what the investor paid for them.This is called flipping and the University, Fillmore and Lovejoy Districts have been flipped to death. Someone said that this will only cost Collins votes in Buffalo. Why? People in Amherst, Cheektowaga and Williamsville shoud be just as concerned as city residents about the ‘health’ of the city. Buffalo is the heart of this area and if Buffalo is hurting, the whole area will feel it. one way or another.

  41. Haterade October 23, 2007 at 7:48 am #

    Good post Ms. Curious … spot on.

  42. Buffalo D October 23, 2007 at 10:51 am #

    This debate about who is right deserves expansion.

    #1: Sure there are issues here. What kind of businessman is Collins? Well this give you some sense, don’t you think?
    #2: Not talking about the issues? Have you looked at their websites? Keane’s is full of information about things he knows about, has proposed or is committed to. Collins’ is not. Keane’s is updated with new information all the time. Collins is not. Collins has pressers from March. Little current.
    #3: Keane has never invested in a slumlord. Collins has.
    #3a: What was he supposed to do? Are you serious? He should have foreclosed and taken responsibility. Why wouldn’t he if the investment was an investment and not a tax scheme?
    #4: Why is it an issue now? 10 years later? Duh!!!! Do you know that city and county taxpayers lost tens of thousands to tear down 4 houses? And the lost tax dollars you have to make up don’t matter to you? Give me a break.
    #5: If anyone was used in an article, I don’t see how. The opinion about this situation doesn’t convey a vote or endorsement and so say what you think about the facts and let the chips fall, as they say.

  43. chris October 23, 2007 at 11:11 am #

    Yawn, Bitch??? Wow, that is the best spoken word from a potential “leader” in WNY. Must have hit deep on that one. If elected, you said you will continue to blog. When someone in your district disagrees with you, will you make the same comments?

    It is one thing to be the chubby blogger with glasses with a quick whit but it another story to hold public office. Great indicator of how you “perceive” those who disagree or criticize you. You may not say it but we know the next time you hear from someone who you do not agree with…. “Yawn, Bitch” or “HMMM, Chicken Wings” will be running through your head.

    What you have to understand Alan is I am not running for elected office…YOU ARE. It is one thing to be a chubby lawyer who is disgruntled in Clarence at the state of WNY. It is another to want to run for office.

    I am no fan of the machine in WNY. The only tolerable aspect of you was your position that you were not either. Even though you “think” differently then a lot of your neighbors, you were supposed to be different. But you are not. You fit in quite well to the machine.

    You are correct that David does not have the East Side cornered, but he is the leader in this topic. Your blog on the other hand has almost ZERO content on the East Side. You are not an ES activist. Furthermore, before the election you found little to discuss about Collins on your blog. So no real East Side content and no Collins content until you run for office. HMMMM

    Now you take your outlet and run an outdated story featuring a figure you have never shown interest in and a place you have shown little desire to cover. HMMM

    Anyone with a clue knows why you ran the story on Collins. Just admit you were helping the machine.

    Best Of Luck In November.

  44. Buffalopundit October 23, 2007 at 11:37 am #

    Yawn, Bitch??? Wow, that is the best spoken word from a potential “leader” in WNY. Must have hit deep on that one. If elected, you said you will continue to blog. When someone in your district disagrees with you, will you make the same comments?

    Aw, did I hurt the troll’s feelings? Boo hoo.

    It is one thing to be the chubby blogger with glasses with a quick whit but it another story to hold public office.

    The word is “wit”, and I’m fat – not chubby. Get with it – if your going to attack me ad hominem, do it properly.

    Great indicator of how you “perceive” those who disagree or criticize you. You may not say it but we know the next time you hear from someone who you do not agree with…. “Yawn, Bitch” or “HMMM, Chicken Wings” will be running through your head.

    Zing! Wow! And you think I should sit here and take shit from you without arguing back, jackass? You’re more a tool than I thought.

    What you have to understand Alan is I am not running for elected office…YOU ARE. It is one thing to be a chubby lawyer who is disgruntled in Clarence at the state of WNY. It is another to want to run for office.

    Is there a point there? DIdn’t think so. And this isn’t a campaign site.

    I am no fan of the machine in WNY. The only tolerable aspect of you was your position that you were not either. Even though you “think” differently then a lot of your neighbors, you were supposed to be different. But you are not. You fit in quite well to the machine.

    And all you do is come on blogs, troll, insult, and throw around accusations of machinery. The News published a story. I commented on it because I found it interesting. You basically accused me of being in Lenny’s pay for doing it. That makes you a bitch.

    You are correct that David does not have the East Side cornered, but he is the leader in this topic. Your blog on the other hand has almost ZERO content on the East Side. You are not an ES activist. Furthermore, before the election you found little to discuss about Collins on your blog. So no real East Side content and no Collins content until you run for office. HMMMM

    Incorrect. Ask Michele Johnson or the people at Buffalo Rising or Judge Nowak or Marc Odien or BFA or Mike Miller or Chris Byrd if this is the first East Side content I’ve had. As for Collins content, I’ve pretty much remained silent about both candidates, but this struck a chord with me due to the prior (which you think is non-existent) stuff I’ve written about the ES.

    Now you take your outlet and run an outdated story featuring a figure you have never shown interest in and a place you have shown little desire to cover. HMMMM.=

    Anyone with a clue knows why you ran the story on Collins. Just admit you were helping the machine.

    Best Of Luck In November.

    I won’t admit anything that isn’t true.

    Incidentally, when I get someone who comments once or twice, and when he does so it’s a harangue for or against one side, I call that person a hack. You’re a hack. And a bad one at that, who doesn’t do his homework and presumes to know everything – more than even me – about this blog, what I do, how I do it, and how often I’ve done it.

  45. chris October 23, 2007 at 1:02 pm #

    No your comment calling me a bitch did nothing to hurt my feelings. I just found it funny that you said it.

    There is a point Alan.

    Blogging is a powerful media, as you know. It is one thing to voice your opinion on your personal blog. It is another thing to want to become a public figure and make the same type of comments.

    You would be a moron to think that your blog has not become a political tool. Since the moment you announced you were running, the thoughts of “BuffaloPundit” and “Alan Bedenko for ECL” are one in the same. So when a democrat running for office makes comments or presents commentary on a Republican running for office in the same election cycle, IT IS POLITICAL! When a blog that has posted very little on the East Side and nothing on Chris Collins runs a story just before the election, IT IS POLITICAL! When a Democrat makes the comment that “Collins sounds like my 7-year old”, you become the hack.

    To think that you would be able to take the position of a media member and criticize Collins and then think people would not consider it political is silly. Your blog is on a MEDIA NETWORK.
    You can not act as a member of the media and comment on politicians and then say it has nothing to do with politics when someone feels it does. That is armature and you know it. I am not the only person who thinks this article was out of line for you to post. But you shrugged it off as Republican hackarama. Anyone who voice a dissenting opinion to yours was brushed off as someone who just came to your blog to post just for this article. Even BuffaloGeek called you out.

    You choose to enter into the political arena and continue to blog. You have said that you will continue to blog if elected. Your attitude is bush league.

    It is very easy to hide behind a keyboard and call people a bitch. In my first post I was critical of you and the original post but I was not vulgar. Instead of just making the points you wanted to make, you added vulgarity. I am sure Madeleine and Mia would be proud of daddy for calling people a bitch when the disagree with daddy. I have no problem with what I have said to you and will say it to your face when I see you next. The question is will you call someone a bitch when there is not a keyboard between you?

    Is this what people in your district can expect? For you to result in name calling for anyone who makes comments against you? Is there an established number of posts that someone has to kiss your ass on this blog before they can question what you write? For the record, coming on to blogs and trolling is not “all I do” but felt the need to comment on your story and the angle you took. Just as you claim you wanted to comment on the story in the news and wanted to present your perspective.

  46. Mr. Pink October 23, 2007 at 1:02 pm #

    Chris Collins has been a candidate for six months and this comes up two weeks before the election. Clearly, the News was spoon fed this article by the Keane camp and should at least be up front about that. If anything, it points out how weak they are about doing their own homework on people running for office.

    Having said that, Collins should have been better prepared to address the issue. Those were terrible, terrible answers. His only saving grace is that as each day goes by, it’s proven more and more that the Buffalo News is not a significant driver of public opinion.

  47. Buffalopundit October 23, 2007 at 1:29 pm #

    No your comment calling me a bitch did nothing to hurt my feelings. I just found it funny that you said it.

    No, you didn’t. You posted what you did specifically to get a rise out of me, and your mission was accomplished. Let’s recap.

    I posted something out of the Buffalo News about Collins not foreclosing on a mortgage he issued to a guy on the east side. Having dealt with people who are housing activists on the east and west sides, it somewhat followed a pattern I had heard about previously. Specifically, it reminded me of MBBA. That was the gist of my post. You came on here and posted:

    Did Len give you a call and thank you for your post?

    The only thing that sounds like a 7-year old is this childish post. Welcome to the machine Alan. You fit in well.

    Am I not supposed to respond to that? If you’re such a devotee of this blog, you know that I sometimes take the bait, and that I will be quite relentless in defending myself against baseless, useless charges like that.

    Your comment wouldn’t have raised an eyebrow had it not contained those specific lines.

    There is a point Alan.

    Blogging is a powerful media, as you know. It is one thing to voice your opinion on your personal blog. It is another thing to want to become a public figure and make the same type of comments.

    You would be a moron to think that your blog has not become a political tool. Since the moment you announced you were running, the thoughts of “BuffaloPundit” and “Alan Bedenko for ECL” are one in the same. So when a democrat running for office makes comments or presents commentary on a Republican running for office in the same election cycle, IT IS POLITICAL! When a blog that has posted very little on the East Side and nothing on Chris Collins runs a story just before the election, IT IS POLITICAL! When a Democrat makes the comment that “Collins sounds like my 7-year old”, you become the hack.

    No. It was an observation which is what I do. “What was I supposed to do” is what my 7 year old says. That’s what Chris Collins said. Next time, shall I filter my observations through you so I can determine what does and does not constitute hackery?

    And you just got caught fibbing about the “never” re: East Side commentary, so now it’s “very little”. Quit while you’re ahead.

    To think that you would be able to take the position of a media member and criticize Collins and then think people would not consider it political is silly. Your blog is on a MEDIA NETWORK.

    Oh, well it’s on a media network, so that makes it more political. Again: shall I just stop blogging about political stories altogether because it politicizes them? Because that’s your argument.

    You can not act as a member of the media and comment on politicians and then say it has nothing to do with politics when someone feels it does.

    Of course politics is political, for Christ’s sake. You accused me of hackery, which is what I specifically took offense to. You accused me of being Lenihan’s lapdog, and that’s patently bullshit that has no basis in fact or reality and is a pretty grevious insult. You knew it – that’s why you said it. Don’t patronize me by re-directing the issue as one of politicizing politics.

    That is armature and you know it. I am not the only person who thinks this article was out of line for you to post. But you shrugged it off as Republican hackarama.

    That’s right. When I posted shit about Reynolds last year, I had an influx of non-regular people posting comments willy-nilly accusing me of all sorts of nonsense. This was no different, and you came here for no other purpose than to troll & insult me.

    Anyone who voice a dissenting opinion to yours was brushed off as someone who just came to your blog to post just for this article.

    No, they weren’t. You were and “Sally” was. Because “Sally” never posted before, and you had only posted one time relatively recently. Someone said Walsh was one of them, and I rebutted that as false, because I know who Walsh is and he’s posted here plenty before.

    Even BuffaloGeek called you out.

    BuffaloGeek is my friend, a campaign advisor, and a business partner. He and I disagree about a lot of things, and he didn’t “call me out”. He begged to differ. He didn’t call me a hack – as a matter of fact, he specifically counted that out. You didn’t. Deal with it.

    You choose to enter into the political arena and continue to blog. You have said that you will continue to blog if elected. Your attitude is bush league.

    WTF does that mean? I’m an amateur? Yes, to the extent that blogging doesn’t pay me a living, I am “bush league”. So, what’s your point there?

    It is very easy to hide behind a keyboard and call people a bitch. In my first post I was critical of you and the original post but I was not vulgar. Instead of just making the points you wanted to make, you added vulgarity. I am sure Madeleine and Mia would be proud of daddy for calling people a bitch when the disagree with daddy.

    That’s easy for you to do – to bring my kids irrelevantly into a discussion about the politicization of politics. Since I have no idea who you are, I have no way to retaliate against that. I hope it makes you feel very manly indeed.

    You came here, called me a hack, suggested that I did it for Lenny, (or at his behest), and I’m supposed to sit back and just take that?! Are you mad?

    I have no problem with what I have said to you and will say it to your face when I see you next. The question is will you call someone a bitch when there is not a keyboard between you?

    Hopefully my kids’ll be there to hear it.

    Is this what people in your district can expect? For you to result in name calling for anyone who makes comments against you? Is there an established number of posts that someone has to kiss your ass on this blog before they can question what you write?

    No, but someone who had only posted once before comes on here and calls me a hack because I dared to be critical of the Sainted Chris Collins isn’t someone coming on here “questioning” what I’ve written. That’s someone picking a fight. And the “is this what people in your district can expect” line is soooooo played out. Get over yourself.

    For the record, coming on to blogs and trolling is not “all I do” but felt the need to comment on your story and the angle you took.

    No. You picked a fight with me. You succeeded. Now what?

    Just as you claim you wanted to comment on the story in the news and wanted to present your perspective.

    I just re-read the post and nowhere did I insult “chris-who-previously-posted-here-once-using-a-different-nickname.”

    If you come on here and disagree with me, more power to you. If you come on here and insult me, please don’t complain if I just sit back and take it, or thank you for it, or give you the ol’ “everyone’s entitled to their opinion”. I’m going to fight back.

    Your response to me fighting back was ad hominem attacks about my weight, which is neither funny nor original. Then you bring up my kids, which is not only creepy, but something I have no way of retaliating against since I have no clue who you are.

    Anything else? Maybe you can call me fat again.

  48. Stephen Nazwisko October 23, 2007 at 1:45 pm #

    BP-

    Breathe.

    He’s baiting you to try and get you to blow up.

    It’s what republicans do when they’re faced with a crippling story – they attack the messenger’s credibility. They, in this thread, have repeatedly attacked both you and the news.

    It’s typical shoot the messenger garbage.

    What do you think they’d say about channel 4 if they knew that they called Collins a “Slumlord” last night on the news?

  49. chris October 23, 2007 at 2:04 pm #

    First off, Alan there is no ill intent in my comments.

    The only reason you would be scared is you know calling people Bitch on a blog when you have no idea who they are, combined with becoming a public figure is not a good idea. Outside of posting comments, you would not be worth the time and I am not a person who believes in violence of any kind. But others may not share the same outlook as me. Judging by how fast you resorted to using vulgarity, I am to assume it is not the first time you calling someone bitch. Not yawning now are you?

    However, you quoted your daughter and put her name up on your election site. Wake up guy, you are a public figure and with this comes different rules a different set of RESPONSIBILTIES. It is funny that you can use your daughter to insult a candidate and that not be “creepy” but when someone references her by name because you made her name public it is.

    My point was to show their daddy is an asshole and started to call people names. But when daddy realized it is not wise for him to call people he does not know names, he starts to backpedal. Still starts with you being an asshole.

    In regards to your weight comment, it is ok for you to call people a bitch first but when someone calls you chubby, it is not funny nor original.

    In regards to blogging. Yes it is my opinion that you should not blog about candidates and stick to the issues. Otherwise it is a hack observation.

    While I accused you for being a pawn, I am not the only person who suggested that this post was out of line. This was an observation with INTENT.

    As far as taking the bait…is that my problem. More reason for you to not blog or not run for office. It is obvious you have a short temper and have no skills for dealing with people who disagree with you. Not really good qualities for a public official.

    Until you posted this, I considered you the better candidate for the position. Fresh ideas v. no success. However you are a tool and not suited for a public office. Your actions on this thread show you have no people skills. Now this is just a wash for me. I also hope the 500 people on the community newsletter who get a copy of this thread feel the same.

    Nice chatting with you. Best of luck in Nov.

  50. Michele Johnson October 23, 2007 at 2:08 pm #

    I have to add my 2 cents here and speak up for Alan who has been a great friend to the East Side..I wont go into details but whenever we needed him for anything hes been there…And FixBuffalo who I know and has done some good work focusing attention on many issues plaquing the East Side is no more a leader than anyone else.I dont write about Greek Mythology because I know nothing about it.. I write about what I know,where I live and what I am trying to accomplish…
    To personally attack Alan is just wrong… He doesnt deserve it. If these properties were next to your house or even on your street can you honestly say you would not be trying to think of a solution to protect your investment( your home) and get rid of the blight? I do agree it seems strange to pull this information out now at a critical time but its out..Alan has a right to voice his opinion and you have a right not to come to the site and read his opinion.I am not a supporter of Keane( not a family member either so my chances of future employment should he win are probably slim)I do however feel Mr Collins seems to be a bright and savvy businessman and the choices he made regarding these properties and the responses he made ” that he didnt have the wherewithal’ to take on the properties..yet he has the wherewithal to take on multi million dollar businesses.

  51. Buffalopundit October 23, 2007 at 2:34 pm #

    First off, Alan there is no ill intent in my comments.

    That’s better comedy than anything I’ve read or heard all day.

    The only reason you would be scared is you know calling people Bitch on a blog when you have no idea who they are, combined with becoming a public figure is not a good idea.

    Neither is calling someone a machine hack.

    Outside of posting comments, you would not be worth the time and I am not a person who believes in violence of any kind.

    Why bring it up, then?

    But others may not share the same outlook as me. Judging by how fast you resorted to using vulgarity, I am to assume it is not the first time you calling someone bitch. Not yawning now are you?

    Make some sense. Especially when you threaten to sic people on them.

    However, you quoted your daughter and put her name up on your election site. Wake up guy, you are a public figure and with this comes different rules a different set of RESPONSIBILTIES. It is funny that you can use your daughter to insult a candidate and that not be “creepy” but when someone references her by name because you made her name public it is.

    Because she’s my daughter. Where did I “use” her to “insult a a candidate?” That’s quite a stretch, isn’t it?

    My point was to show their daddy is an asshole and started to call people names. But when daddy realized it is not wise for him to call people he does not know names, he starts to backpedal. Still starts with you being an asshole.

    Let’s explore something: you called me a machine hack. Is that not an insult? Is that not a vulgarity given who I am and what I’ve posted about for the last 3-4 years? It is to me. So, yeah, you came on here like a bitch, bitched me out good & proper, and then whine about it when I call you what you are, and you retaliate by calling me an asshole in one breath while fretting over my use of vulgarity in the next. Too funny.

    In regards to your weight comment, it is ok for you to call people a bitch first but when someone calls you chubby, it is not funny nor original.

    I never claimed for it to be. But since I don’t know who you are, I am at a loss to mock any of your physical traits.

    In regards to blogging. Yes it is my opinion that you should not blog about candidates and stick to the issues. Otherwise it is a hack observation.

    Which underscores the fact that you don’t have a clue what I do here. Candidates are issues.

    While I accused you for being a pawn, I am not the only person who suggested that this post was out of line. This was an observation with INTENT.

    Well, oh, it’s with “INTENT”, that makes all the difference. Who cares if you think the post was out of line? I’ve probably posted lots of things that were out of line. You started with the name-calling, and now you’re the one trying to backpedal.

    As far as taking the bait…is that my problem. More reason for you to not blog or not run for office. It is obvious you have a short temper and have no skills for dealing with people who disagree with you. Not really good qualities for a public official.

    I have phenomenal skills dealing with people who disagree with me. I have no patience whatsoever for people who insult me.

    Until you posted this, I considered you the better candidate for the position. Fresh ideas v. no success. However you are a tool and not suited for a public office.

    Whatevs. Your IP suggests it doesn’t matter.

    Your actions on this thread show you have no people skills. Now this is just a wash for me. I also hope the 500 people on the community newsletter who get a copy of this thread feel the same.

    Yes, but please make 100% sure to print every word of this thread. Every. Single. Word.

    And, to the people of “chris'” community newsletter:

    I hope you’re all dealing quite well with the extraordinary drought in your part of the country. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

    You see, I’m a blogger by hobby and I happen to be running for the Erie County Legislature. I’ve never run for office before, and you can learn more about my candidacy at my campaign website. http://www.alanbedenko.com.

    As a blogger, I have to put up with nonsense every once in a while. Occasionally, I post things that people disagree with – oftentimes vehemently. If a person posts a comment that disagrees with my viewpoint, that’s fair and sometimes I engage them in debate, but usually not. I usually let the post speak for itself, and let the commenters throw their 2 cents in.

    But if someone comes on my site and accuses me of things that aren’t true, and insults me, then yeah I get a little angry. Sometimes, I even fight back. Your friend “chris” came on my site and did just that. Since he’s taken the time to print out the entirety of the thread arising from a Buffalo News story about a politician running for office up here in Buffalo, I’m sure you can read for yourself what he said about me.

    One of the things I pride myself on is not being anyone’s tool. I don’t owe anybody a thing if I win, unlike my opponent who has appointed friends of his to high-paying vanity jobs during his 18-year tenure. I think that stinks. I think people who call me a “machine” “hack” kind of stink, too.

    So, on my blog, which is like a personal journal of my thoughts & opinions, I can sometimes get quite heated in my rhetoric. I called your friend “chris” a bitch. Should I have done that? Probably not. But I’m not one to take lightly being accused of something that isn’t true. So I lashed out.

    I think that shows passion. I fight for myself like I’ll fight for my constituents. I won’t take any bullshit from anyone from any party. I’ll make sure that Erie County rights its fiscal ship and I won’t let nonsensical spending adversely affect attempts to get the county back on track.

    Nice chatting with you. Best of luck in Nov.

    Likewise. Be sure to send me a copy of the newsletter containing the entire thread, now!

  52. Mike Walsh October 24, 2007 at 12:17 am #

    Couple of points….My response to the article in question was more about the media than the issue involved. I don’t know who Sally Would is and was just following along with the comments.

    I’m certainly not a republican hack as everybody who wants to know can find me on FNY.

    Alan and I disagree on tons of issues but I would never call him a hack for anybody.

    Everybody, try not to make this stuff personal, you too Hank.

  53. Eric P. October 24, 2007 at 10:02 am #

    Armature. Bitch.

  54. hank October 24, 2007 at 1:22 pm #

    Stephen wrote
    It’s what republicans do when they’re faced with a crippling story – they attack the messenger’s credibility.

    Actually, that’s what Democrats do too. Read the NYT for confirmation.

    Alan-I’ve seen pictures of you, and I fully intend to see you when I’m home next summer, and I wouldn’t call you fat anymore that I would call myself that. I think after seeing your
    picture you’re just like me–“Fluffy”.

    Mike Walsh ==get over your persecution complex, you’re starting to sound like the fearless leader of the WNY Ronulans. I didn’t criticize YOU. Just libertarian populism.
    If you can’t take that—WAH! Grow up and get over it.

    Chris–I’ve been commenting here over 2 years. I’ve pissed Alan off GOOD a couple of times. He’s always gracious, and I support him in his race for ECL. As a Conservative who the Grand Wizard or Uncle Adolf would have a hard time getting on “My RIGHT side”, I think that says a lot about this man.

    Wanna play pile on a Democrat for ECL? Jump Marinelli and Ianello. They’re about as useful as a soup sandwich.

  55. Mike Walsh October 25, 2007 at 12:22 am #

    “Mike Walsh ==get over your persecution complex, you’re starting to sound like the fearless leader of the WNY Ronulans. I didn’t criticize YOU. Just libertarian populism.
    If you can’t take that—WAH! Grow up and get over it.”

    Hmmm…I’ve never stated that I was a libertarian or endorsed Ron Paul, not here or on FNY, although I like a lot of the ideas they bring forth.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. In da Buff (Buffalo, New York) » If you need more evidence as to why… - October 23, 2007

    […] …I am voting for myself, check this post out on Buffalo Pundito’s site.  The CE race is more about the “D”… […]

  2. Chris Collins and the Dictatorship of Petty Bureaucracy | Artvoice Daily - October 17, 2012

    […] restore jobs. I predicted that he would win as early as April of that year. During the campaign, it was revealed that Collins had loaned money to an East Side slumlord and the debt went bad. When that happened, Collins could have foreclosed and re-sold the properties, or write it off and […]

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