Executive Experience

30 Aug

People seriously sometimes bore me with their predictability.

Is anyone surprised that Republicans are super-duper thrilled with Palin and Democrats have serious questions about her? Of course not.

Is anyone doubting – even for a moment – that if Palin was a Democratic choice (regardless of who the nominee is), the Republicans would be all but calling her an outright traitor by now?

When I first heard that she was the pick, I instantly looked at it from a purely procedural posture. I think that Palin strips McCain of the “readiness” argument against Obama. Other than that, I couldn’t really care less whom McCain picks because a) I’m not voting for him; and b) People generally don’t vote based on who the Veep pick is.

There is something, though, to the idea of judgment and decision-making. Picking a veep is the first serious Presidential decision a candidate makes during the course of a campaign, and I think there’s no question that Barack Obama picked someone who is ready to pick up the reins from day one should anything happen to him. The same cannot, however, be said for McCain, I think. That pinko commie David Frum agrees that it’s a bad choice, and that Palin’s selection puts the lie to the whole “putting America first” line of McCain’s.

Instead, I think it is, in part, a cynical ploy to win over disgruntled female Hillary supporters. Fine, if those Democratic women are in favor of an anti-abortion candidate who supports teaching something not science in schools.

But I think the whole Hillary PUMA thing is way overblown. People were angry, their feelings were hurt, but they’ll come around. A transparent pander to them from the Republican side isn’t necessarily going to make them switch to McCain.

The other thing that people have been bringing up is Palin’s vast executive experience, first as mayor of a town of 9,000, and most recently as governor of a state that has 2/3 the population of Erie County. “Executive experience” as a must-have qualification for president is little more than a foolish cable news talking point, as far as I’m concerned.

We have separation of powers in this country, true. But in Canada and Great Britain, for instance, the head of state is simultaneously an executive and an elected member of the legislature. Based on the “Palin has executive experience” talking point, Margaret Thatcher and Tony Blair were each less qualified than John McCain to become head of state. So, I discount that argument completely.

I mean, I know she’s also been the singular bulwark against a Canadian and Russian invasion, but since both Alaska and Russia are more or less uninhabited for thousands of miles where they “meet” (I understand there are 170 inhabitants on American Little Diomede and zero residents on Russia’s Big Diomede Island), it’s hardly Department of State stuff.

Frankly, I think Obama proved his strength as an executive simply by defeating Clinton, who had a sheen of inevitability all the way up until January 2008.

In the wake of Palin’s selection, conservatives are simply playing Mr. Rogers make-believe with respect to their complete lack of enthusiasm for McCain. They finally have something to pretend to be enthusiastic about.

Here’s one Alaskan blogger’s take on the Palin pick.

In any event, from a fundamental standpoint I cannot fathom another 4 or 8 years of Republicans at the helm of the United States after the 7 years we’ve just gone through. There has been such a widespread dismantling of American values from day one of the Bush administration, and McCain went along with it all a vast majority of the time.

The race won’t be about Sarah Palin or Joe Biden. So, here’s the summary of the previous 100+ post thread:

REPUBLICANS: She’s Susan B. Anthony and Colin Powell wrapped up in an ultraconservative, hockey mom body. Her 2 years as executive of a state with 670,000 people is equal to 100 years as President of the World. As Alaska governor, she is the first line of defense against an imminent Russian invasion.

DEMOCRATS: She’s a lightweight who is embroiled in controversy, and has taken away several of McCain’s signature attacks against Obama. Although she satisfies the moose-hunter constitutional requirement to serve, she is a cynical ploy by McCain to try and attract female voters who still pine for a Hillary presidency. While people are concerned about Obama’s experience, he has selected someone with all the experience one would need. OTOH, McCain has experience but is quite old and has selected a veep with even less experience than Obama.

Even shorter thread:

REPUBLICANS: We love her! Obama sucks!
DEMOCRATS: Ha ha! Obama rocks!

And that’s the funny thing. The Republicans practically never talk up McCain, they always talk down Obama. So on issues Obama gets the win. And besides, Palin likes Obama’s energy plan:

96 Responses to “Executive Experience”

  1. Buffalo Hodgepodge August 30, 2008 at 10:34 am #

    BP: I would perhaps add that some pollster probably showed McCain that if he could find one person who could not only pull some disaffected Hillary voters but also simultaneously energize voter turnout among the evangelical – that it was his only shot in an awful year for the GOP.

    Kind of reminds me of when Fred and Barney (Flintstone and Rubble, that is) tried to write a hit song that catered to all 120% of the population.

  2. Mike In WNY August 30, 2008 at 10:43 am #

    And the rest of Palin’s remarks on Obama’s energy policy were spot on:

    The Governor did question the means to pay for Obama’s proposed rebate — a windfall profits tax on oil companies. In Alaska, the state’s resource valuation system, ACES, provides strong incentives for companies to re-invest their profits in new production.

    “Windfall profits taxes alone prevent additional investment in domestic production. Without new supplies from American reserves, our dependency and addiction to foreign sources of oil will continue,” Governor Palin said.

  3. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 11:11 am #

    spent 10 days in coastal alaska last year and was amazed by the and was amazed by the bitterness america’s energy policy has engendered there. the way they see it, they’re sitting on top of millions of barrels of oil they can’t drill for because the asshats in washington/new york/california etc. are more worried about polar bears than they are about people. federal regulation has likewise had a negative effect on the logging, mining and fishing industries there.

    this is why alaskans overwhelmingly support sen. ted stevens, even though he is under indictment on some dubious federal charge.

    say what you’d like, gov. palin didn’t vote for the iraq war resolution, has never been guilty of plagiarism and knows her way around a kalashnikov, the type of rifle that so terrifies little barry o, the hawaiian surfer dude who’s running for president.

  4. al-alo August 30, 2008 at 11:21 am #

    ill give mccain credit, its a ballsy move – one that no other person would have considered.

    this does give us some great insight. what does it say about how McCain feels about his chances in november? it cant be that he is comfortable with the current trajectory of his campaign, or we’d be talking about Romney, or Pawlenty. If he was really feeling confident, we’d be talking about Lieberman. its gamble, a shot in the dark – perhaps a desperate move?

    the other thought that comes to mind is McCain is willing to take a big chance. a REALLY big chance. not only with his campaign, but with his country. what if something happens to him early in his presidency? no serious person would ever suggest she is ready for the job. she is a George Bush is glasses and pearls – only she is from a state with less population – much much less.

    is McCain willing to bet his nations future so he can win?

    I guess so.

  5. Jaquandor August 30, 2008 at 11:23 am #

    Matthew Yglesias said it best: Obama picked someone to help him govern; McCain picked someone to help him win the news cycle. I find this pick embarrassing. The degree to which McCain is willing to sell his soul to get the far right behind him is the most nauseating thing I’ve seen in a long time in electoral politics.

    But at least if McCain wins, there will be no question who the person making the decisions in the White House is. Sarah Palin will not be a major voice in the McCain Administration (if that comes to pass, which I frankly doubt). The best she can be is a less gaffe-prone Dan Quayle.

  6. Know it all August 30, 2008 at 11:23 am #

    One heart attack away…

  7. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 11:45 am #

    the odds of “something happening” to mccain during the next four years, i would guess, are no greater than the odds of “something happening” to obama. and the thought of president biden makes me queasy as hell.

    biden’s been running for president since before i could vote, and i’m not a young man. the american people — those belonging to the democratic party anyway — have rejected him time and again. what makes him such a good choice now?

  8. laughingoutloud August 30, 2008 at 12:04 pm #

    asked her about the possibility of becoming McCain’s ticket mate….

    Palin replied: “As for that VP talk all the time, I’ll tell you, I still can’t answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?

  9. Chris M August 30, 2008 at 12:22 pm #

    Palin has run a company, a town, and a state.

    Barack has basically run his mouth.

  10. Get Off My Lawn August 30, 2008 at 12:23 pm #

    Ddid a little research to compare Palin’s record with Obama’s. Palin’s experience is comparable, but her accomplishments are much more impressive.

    From 1992-1996 when Palin served on the City Council of Wasilla, Obama was teaching part time at the University of Chicago Law School and working in private practice part time.

    In 1996 when Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate, Palin was elected Mayor of Wasilla, AK.. Obama worked for legislation that would provide tax credits and subsidies to private devilopers of affordable housing. Tony Rezko received over $87 million in government funds to renovate and maintain affordable housing units, many of them in Obama’s disctrict. Many of these units lacked heat, had leaking roofs and were infested by rodents. Palin ran her small but growing city with a budget just under six million dollars and about 50 employees, and was reelected in 1999.

    In 2003, Palin was appointed to the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission. When she uncovered corruption in the organization, and was unable to get Governor Murkowski to take action, she resigned in protest and filed charges again the offenders, taking on entrenched corruption in Alaskan politics, This fight led her to run against Gov. Murkowski in the primary, and then go on to become Alaska’s first female governor in 2006.

    In 2004, Obama was elected to the US Senate. The developers who had received government funding as a result of legislation sponsored by Obama served on his campaign finance committee. Many of the buildings they had purchased with government funding were seized for code violations, or foreclosed, and the low-income residents were forced to find housing elsewhere. In 2008, Governor Palin worked with the legislature to provide Alaskans a $1200 rebate from state revenues, and successfully arranged for the development of the Transcanada Pipeline to transport natural gas from Alaska to the lower 48 states.

    Do the Democrats really want to talk about this? The Democrats have their inexperience at the top of their ticket.

  11. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 12:36 pm #

    laughingoutloud…what does the vice president do every day? you seem pretty smart, why don’t you fill us in!

  12. Get Off My Lawn August 30, 2008 at 12:44 pm #

    Buffalo Pundit said “But I think the whole Hillary PUMA thing is way overblown. People were angry, their feelings were hurt, but they’ll come around. A transparent pander to them from the Republican side isn’t necessarily going to make them switch to McCain.”

    But I just saw this on the “Rochester Turning” site. Seems there is some ass puckering going on in the Democrat ranks.

    “Call Hillary nowby ladkiddo on August 30, 2008 @ 9:58 am · Filed under Connections, Federal Races, Honest Communication, News, Responsibility, ladkiddo

    This group, PUMA (stands for party unity my ass) is putting up ads using Hillary’s name encouraging dienfranchised Hillary supporters to vote for McCain. I’m speechless. But I think it’s time for everybody who cares about the future of our country, and the world, to call Hillary’s office and ask her to demand that these people cease and desist from using her name in this manner. McCain stands for everything that Hillary is against. Please make the call.”

    Rochester Region
    Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
    Kenneth B. Keating Federal Office Building
    100 State Street
    Room 4109
    Rochester, NY 14614
    Phone: (585) 263-6250
    Fax: (585) 263-6247

    Washington, D.C.
    Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton
    United States Senate
    476 Russell Senate Office Building
    Washington, DC 20510
    Phone: (202) 224-4451
    General Fax: (202) 228-0282
    Scheduling Req Fax: (202) 228-0121
    TTY/TDD: (202) 224-6821

    Have a nice afternoon.

  13. peter crotty August 30, 2008 at 1:27 pm #

    voters who still pine for a Hillary presidency…

    and PUMA…

    What world do these people live in? We have a general election to win.

    PUT DOWN THE KOOL-AID. Stop f&^king this election up for those of us who don’t want 4 or 8 more years of this insanity.

    Look at the bright side, it’s not like she can’t ever ever ever run again. Obama 8 and then Biden-Clinton. Okay? Now can you let it go?

  14. amanda crotty August 30, 2008 at 1:28 pm #

    Sorry. That post was NOT Peter Crotty! It was Amanda Crotty!

  15. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 1:43 pm #

    yes, the thought of a woman who can kill a caribou, clean it and serve it to her family for dinner is indeed frightening to many new yorkers of both sexes.

    and, as pundit can confirm, hillary is a public figure who has little control over the use of her name.

    the comical thing is that all the commentators who were calling her a bitch here six months ago now want to appeal to her better nature. she should tell you all to fuck off.

  16. Byron August 30, 2008 at 1:51 pm #

    The only commenter I remember calling her a bitch was your buddy hank. But as usual don’t let facts get in the way of your stupid rant. Jesus what a candy-ass whiner you are.

  17. Jim Ostrowski August 30, 2008 at 1:58 pm #

    Palin is a smart move so far. The Dems shot themselves in the foot by not nominating Hillary.

    Palin is the only one on either ticket who actually lives in the real world. The other three have been legislators for many years. That’s not a real job; it’s a permanent paid vacation. Once you raise your hand and swear to uphold a constitution you have never read, you can collect your paycheck.

  18. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 3:01 pm #

    byron…you are simply wrong about the number of people who used that word in relation to clinton, and i forgot to even mention the names and descriptions used by many here to describe some of her supporters, americans the obama campaign is now trying desperately to woo.

  19. kris August 30, 2008 at 5:02 pm #

    I have been to Wasilla. The mayor of Kenmore has more experience than this woman.

    And if you consider Wasilla, AK “the real world” (in comparison to what – Chicago?) – you have never been there.

  20. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 5:34 pm #

    the mayor of kenmore has more experience than the governor of alaska?

    throughout the primary and now into the general election, the obama campaign has been characterized by a misogyny unseen in american politics since the 1920 passage of the 19th amendment.

  21. Prodigal Son August 30, 2008 at 5:35 pm #

    This choice was politically brilliant:

    1) It completely undermines the “making history” case for Obama – now you can make history two ways.

    2) It excites evangelicals. Maybe most on this site don’t want evangelicals excited (I may be one of those), but when they get going, they elect Presidents.

    3) It appeals that’s left of the PUMA crowd. It may be small, but the race is tied right now. If 5% of Hillary supporters switch because of this, it puts McCain on top.

    4) It makes democrats look retarded when they try to trash her for lack of experience. She was elected to public office in 1993, two years before Obama. She has more Executive experience than all three other candidates put together. Do you mock and belittle her for the size of her state? That will backfire in the long run – especially when she is deploying national guard to combat in Iraq, and is an eloquent advocate for energy (her state’s speciality). If you are worried the Republicans are putting someone with little experience on the bottom of the ticket, how can you support the Dems who put less experience on the top? Obama has proved he is good at running campaigns – all he does is run and get elected for the next higher office. But he has never DONE anything in the offices he has held. Running campaigns is different than running a country – one does not qualify you for the other. If they did, Karl Rove & Bush would be loved, not hated.

    Obama nominated someone to be his VP who is more qualified than he is. The country would be in better shape if Biden-Obama was the ticket, not the other way around. If McCain had nominated the “most qualified” Republican, he’d be bashed for lack of imagination, and standing in the way of history.

    I don’t think Palin is ready to be a heart beat away from the Presidency. But even more, I don’t think Obama is ready to be the beating heart itself.

  22. Kevin Hardwick August 30, 2008 at 6:09 pm #

    You nailed it Son! I’d only add that in addition to exciting the Evangelicals, it’s energized McCain. I haven’t seen him so animated in years.

  23. Jeff August 30, 2008 at 6:58 pm #

    Oh my God.

    I just heard Sarah say “resolve” and “nucular” within 1 minute of each other.

    So much for distancing yourself from the failed Bush administration.

    This ridiculous claim that she has *executive experience* is so lame. Fact is, Obama, Biden and McCain are all quite versed in domestic as well as national policy. THAT is what’s important, not the ability to govern for 17 months the 4th least populated state in the country.

    John McCain has screwed up horribly. He has decided to cater to those who were goiung to vote for him anyway. This is a Hail Mary and it will not work. Anyone who thinks this choice is wise must be a closet Democrat. Biden will make minced meat out of her in a debate.

    What a slap in the face to a myriad of Republicans who would’ve have been outstanding VPs on this ticket.

    If you think John McCain has a snowballs chance at this point, you’re delusional.

  24. Prodigal Son August 30, 2008 at 6:59 pm #

    Thanks, Doc. I feel in good company now.

    Two last items I forgot: Catholics, and Hockey-Mom’s, who in some battleground states, may be the same thing.

    Prediction: in two months, Chuck Todd, Rassmussen and the network wonks and pollsters are talking about how McCain is ahead because Palin appeals to the Hockey-Mom’s, a rust-belt subsection of traditional Soccer Mom’s, in Ohio, Penn, MI, NJ, NH, and even WNY (if Buffalo’s vote mattered, next to the giant NYC). Hockey-Mom’s in these battleground states, Catholic’s who supported Hillary out of union solidarity, or mild feminism, will run to McCain-Palin. She’s pro-life, which makes them more comfortable, and they didn’t support Obama the first time around. Flip a state or two on that list, and the election is done.

  25. Buffalopundit August 30, 2008 at 7:05 pm #

    Generally, women are pro-choice. Women want their kids to be educated with real science; if they want them to learn “creationism”, they send them for religious instruction. Women know when they’re being pandered to.

    Also, I was just listening to Palin in Pennsylvania, and she gave the same glass-ceiling shout-out to Clinton that she gave in Ohio yesterday.

    When she mentioned Clinton’s name, the whole crowd booed.

    I’m sure the jilted female Clinton voters were really, really pleased with that.

    Little known fact: Sarah Palin cured cancer while wrestling a bear with her bare hands.

  26. Jeff August 30, 2008 at 7:35 pm #

    I have to admit I’m very surprised at Kevin Hardwick’s appraisal of this situation. It seems quite obvious this is a desparate ploy that will backfire.

    This Gov. Palin is not just ill-equipped on several levels to be VP or President, but she will also find herself in quite the pickle when debating an incredibly well rounded and conversant Joe Biden. The other 3 in the race are informationally very worldly. Sarah Palin falls short across the board.

    Thanks to GWB, the Republican’s have a lot to make up for this time around, and pandering to the faction within thr party that is most closely aligned with GWB is a tremendous mistake.

    This will bear out come November.

  27. John August 30, 2008 at 7:46 pm #

    I know this is picky, but the “head of state” in Great Britain is the monarch, currently the good Queen Bess II. She may also be the head of state in Canada, or maybe the Governor General is; my knowledge of Canadian constitutional law is basically nil. The prime minister, who has both executive and legislative responsibilities, is the head of government. In the U.S., the President is both head of state and head of government, but in constitutional monarchies the functions are split between two positions.

  28. Prodigal Son August 30, 2008 at 7:55 pm #

    And Obama is a Greek god who descended from his home on Mt Olympus to give a great speech Thursday night at the temple built for him in Denver. Both facts are equally relevant.

    According to the info in this 2003 poll:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States

    women are less pro-choice than men. Though yes, still a majority, are pro-choice to some degree.

    Why did women flock to Hillary? Her strong pro-choice stand? Any strong policy stand? Or instead was it the fact that she was the culmination of 30 years of feminism, and they wanted the glass ceiling broken? Hillary wouldn’t have used the 18 million crack metaphor, if she didn’t realize it was the latter. And everyone that pays tribute to her, says “you’ve inspired my daughter to be President,” not “thanks for the pro-choice and anti-creationism stand.”

    One last question, and I’m being completely honest: why is it, that when people assume african-americans support Obama, its taken for granted, and called identity politics, . . . but when people assume women will support Palin, its pandering and insulting?

  29. Buffalopundit August 30, 2008 at 7:57 pm #

    @John – you’re right. My bad. QEII is head of state, Blair and Thatcher were heads of government. In the US, there is no distinction, so my point remains valid.

  30. Kevin Hardwick August 30, 2008 at 8:05 pm #

    If it’s any consolation, Jeff, I’m still sticking with my prediction that Gov. Mario Cuomo will defeat George Pataki and win reelection in 1994.

  31. Kevin Hardwick August 30, 2008 at 8:10 pm #

    I also nailed the Bush 41 landslide over Clinton in 1992, thus earning me the “Most Pathetic Entry Award” in Dr. Michael Haselswerdt’s election pool. Unfortunately, the Award was not a monetary one. More recently, however, my predictions have been closer to the mark. I’ll take McCain-Palin by a comfortable margin in the electoral college.

  32. Prodigal Son August 30, 2008 at 8:27 pm #

    @Jeff – your overall analysis may be correct, but I have to disagree with you that McCain is catering to a constituency that was going to support him anyway.

    Conservatives and evangelicals, when they do exit polling, of course will be supporting McCain. But how many of them will turnout? Students and African-Americans are reliably Democratic but unreliable voters. If Obama gets the same turnout in the general, that he did in the primaries, the enthusiasm gap will equate to landslides, as evangelicals decide to stay home. Palin gets them in their cars, and gets them to call their neighbors and remind them to vote. Last time they did this, Bush won twice.

    I think McCain looked at the poll numbers, saw the race tightening, and decided he was doing just enough to still lose. Losing close, or a landslide, is still a loss. Romney was the status quo pick, Ridge and Lieberman net losses. Palin was either the big win, or the dropped pass in the endzone. I give him credit for actually trying to win, and not just coasting a la Bob Dole to a predictable loss.

  33. steve August 30, 2008 at 8:31 pm #

    @BP — “The Republicans practically never talk up McCain, they always talk down Obama.”

    Sort of like, maybe, kinda — people talking down Davis and Kryzan but not talking up Powers? Just wondering.

  34. hank August 30, 2008 at 9:34 pm #

    If 8 years of Bush has been hell, and McCain is 4 more years of the same, why do the polls have Mc Cain and the Messiah so close together?
    Every network reporter, and pundit, including the unbiased ones on tape cheering,clapping and genuflecting toward the Messiah during his speech can’t figure out why he’s not ahead by 25 points.

    Well there must be a reason.

    Perhaps it’s his idea of giving people tax breaks who don’t pay any taxes now. Like earned income credit on steroids. Mayube people see that as re-distribution of income, which if you look it up comes under Socialism. Could that set in Denver was the Zeppelin Field in Nuremburg after all?

    Or is it that Mc Cain brings in a Washington outsider as a VP, so far outside Washington it’s almost impossible to get further away and still be on the Continent.

    And Barry Obama brings Change from Oustide with his pick–a man whose been a Professional Washington Insider for 36 years, Never gets far enough away from the Beltway to lose sight of the capitol dome.

    Now THAT’s Change we can believe in.

    McCain snookered every last democrat in the Country, and the MSM.
    Old fucker even surprised most Republicans–maybe he’s got some more cards up his sleeve.

    Country is still Right Center. Hold on, the ride just started.

  35. TheRover August 30, 2008 at 9:41 pm #

    Paranoid democratic shrill. Because deep down they know the top of their ticket is weaker than Jimmy Carter. Even though they hate Bush and the GOP they adopt the same game plan as Rove; choose someone whos presidential cred is thin, just back him up with someone more seasoned. Democrats are so desperate for White House they’ll follow W’s way to get there, shamelessly selling themselves out in the process. Hardly suprises me. It’s the substance at the top of the ticket that voters now want. McCain has it. Palin simply covers his weaknesses.

    And when Biden says “Gov Palin, your no Hilary Clinton” I can only hope she says, “Thank God, because I’ve actually ran something before.”

    I wish John McCain the best of health in his first and if he chooses second term. However, should Palin accend to the Oval Office I’ll trust the judgement of a working woman with five kids over any seasoned male hack anyday. Women tend to make sound decisions (Pundit should have a stat on that. If not, he should ask his wife) But for now it’s about Obama vs McCain. Bring on Nov 4th.

    BTW Pundit, how’s your last Reformer/Agent of Change Spitzer doing these days?

  36. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 9:45 pm #

    palin’s speech was a solid 10. the thing about her son going to iraq on sept. 11 was priceless. you couldn’t make that up. the polls show obama got a bounce of 5 percent at most from the democratic convention, which was the most-watched convention ever in the history of television. the godless dems are now praying for that hurricane to hit new orleans and ruin the republican convention, but god won’t listen to them. a day or two after the gop convention ends, obama and mccain will again be neck and neck.

    and instead of talking about how great obama is all weekend, the pundits are stuck figuring out who this palin woman is. great move.

  37. mike hudson August 30, 2008 at 9:56 pm #

    “I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy.”

    Joe Biden on Barack Obama
    January31, 2007

  38. Buffalopundit August 30, 2008 at 10:03 pm #

    Palin’s speech was a solid ten so much that this happened.

  39. Buffalopundit August 30, 2008 at 10:12 pm #

    This is awesome too. What do you think, Hudson?

    We’ve had multiple diehard Hillary supporters come into our office yesterday and today and say that HRC’s speech didn’t sway them and neither did Obama’s, but they resent the Palin pick as trying to manipulate them and think it’s insulting to compare her to Hillary, and they have gone from sitting this out to volunteering for Barack.

    There is a backlash we’re seeing among HRC supporters who are now coming over.

  40. TheRover August 30, 2008 at 10:24 pm #

    Approx 34 hours after she was announced and her numbers aren’t through the roof. You people are grasping at straws. She’ll get her legs under her before you know it.

  41. Kevin Hardwick August 30, 2008 at 10:36 pm #

    If I’m McCain, Alan, I’d be pleased with an extra 9% of Democratic women voting for me. The 15% that are less likely to vote for him weren’t his to begin with.

  42. Jeff August 30, 2008 at 11:03 pm #

    What those trying to perpetuate GWB seem to not understand, is that once the novelty (and it is just that) of Sarah Palin wears off, Republicans are left with someone who DOES NOT have the confidence of the American people as to her ability to take over one of the most demanding jobs in the history of this world.

    Obama/Biden? As I said earlier, whether you like their policies or not, it is a far more credible ticket.

    And spare me the *executive experience* rap. It’s as hollow as Sean Hannity’s head.

    John McCain (assuming he wins) has jeopardized our country with such a ludicrous choice for VP. Absolutely and shamefully ludicrous.

    As Palin repeated (almnost verbatim) yesterday’s speech in Pennsylvania today, she sounded more like a high school cheerleader than anominee for VP.

    What a disgrace.

    What you’re witnessing is the McCain campaign trying to emulate what Karl Rove did in 2004: Don’t worry about winning votes from the other side, work on gfetting out your base.

    That was a winning strategy in ’04 because the Iraq war was young and things weren’t so dire economically. This is not ’04. The American electorate has had 4 more years of GWB failure to reflect on, and catering to the crowd that had embraced him will not be as successful as it was 4 years ago for the simple fact that sizable portion of that faction, who gravitate more toward the center, aren’t buying it this time around. In a nutshell, they’ve had it.

    McCain with a solid VP pick had a much better chance of mitigating the voter defection than McCain/Palin. Palin is a stark reminder of the GWB mentality: Seemingly very little knowledge of world affairs and an extremely conservative social philosophy in a nation where the average person is more toward the center.

    Tsk tsk.

  43. Jeff August 30, 2008 at 11:13 pm #

    An important stat missing from that poll is: How many McCain supporters are now more likely to vote for Obama?

    Don’t doubt for a second that plenty of McCain supporters see this move as a gimmicky stunt born of bad judgement.

    There are a great many McCain supporters who will not be comforted by this VP choice, despite all the hype.

    Several people I know who leaned toward McCain are very disappointed by this selection. Many people are on the fence this campaign cycle and pushing the ticket far right is a great way to make up the minds of plenty of centrists. We do not need another born-again anywhere near the White House.

  44. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 12:12 am #

    wow. pundit says daily tracking polls are meaningless when they show obama in trouble, but very significant when they go against mccain. how clever!

    pundit, you should post about mccain and obama every day. your relentless and and smugly superior coverage on this site has served to galvanize the anti-powers forces, maybe you could do the same for mccain.

    why don’t you show the video you had up of west virginians for clinton again now that obama’s out begging for their votes? then they were toothless hicks deserving of nothing but scorn and contempt but today they represent the decent values of all poor but proud americans.

    so long as they don’t vote mccain.

    obama’s mediocre bounce following a convention that looked like a coronation and a week’s worth of prime time television coverage shows just how weak he is.

    he plans to spend more than three times what mccain can spend to get himself elected, and yet you constantly and comically portray him as a “grassroots” candidate.

    he is, in fact, the establishment candidate.

    you are so intellectually dishonest when it comes to politics that your innate republicanism shows like a bad card player’s tell.

  45. brian August 31, 2008 at 12:23 am #

    I really want to read some good polls on this. All I am hearing are partisan talking points. I have a feeling he will get a slight bump of three to four points, but will deteriorate over time.
    I don’t think Obama has the experience one usually looks for in a Presidential candidate. But, in the interview, he has blown me away. I’ll respect someone who says he doesn’t have the appropriate experience, but don’t then argue that Miss Congeniality has it too. It does give me comfort that Joe Biden will be on the ticket and will be supporting the ticket.
    John McCain has a ton of experience, but he just seems crazy and out of touch. The choice of the Miss Congeniality as VP looks cheap. I also find it harder to believe him when he says he will put country first because he obviously put the election first.
    I am a partisan Democrat, so that probably does cloud my judgment.
    People – please don’t argue that Obama has a ton of relative experience, because he doesn’t. Don’t argue that Miss Congeniality does either, because she has even less. This talking points argument from people who would be defend and support any pick is just annoying.

  46. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 12:44 am #

    How in God’s name can you put these two on a par—other than because you have no defense for McCain’s absurd pick? If I may borrow from another post, Obama has already been fairly integrally involved in making policy:

    Obama has sponsored or co-sponsored the Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act, the Lugar-Obama Cooperative Threat Reduction Act, the Coburn-Obama Transparency Act, the Honest Leadership and Open Government Act and the Iraq War De-Escalation Act. He has held assignments on the Senate Committees for Foreign Relations, Environment, Public Works, Veterans’ Affairs, Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. He was chairman of the Senate’s subcommittee on European Affairs. He has made official state visits to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, Central Asia and Africa.

  47. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 1:29 am #

    yes, we saw the picture of him in africa dressed like ali baba.

  48. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 3:24 am #

    Almost as funny looking as when GWB wears customary outfits.

    This VP choice was a surrender. Most Republicans have yet to realize this. Sad.

  49. Queen Carlotta August 31, 2008 at 6:56 am #

    Again, insults and division… is that all the Barry Obama fan club offer? I suppose the Obama people have halted critiques of Gov. Palin having a Down Syndrome child so I should be encouraged that the Obama borg has achieved some progress in attempting to engage in civil discourse.

    What many of the hard core angry and hateful Obama supporters dont realize is that they are going to turn off other Democrats (such as myself) for the Obama ticket.

    Are the outrageous comments from the Barry Obama supporters on here examples of “Change We Can Believe In?”

  50. Buffalopundit August 31, 2008 at 7:50 am #

    @Mike Hudson can’t stop spinning:

    wow. pundit says daily tracking polls are meaningless when they show obama in trouble, but very significant when they go against mccain. how clever!

    I know you usually just make stuff up, but could you point to a post or comment where I called tracking polls meaningless? KTHXBAI.

    pundit, you should post about mccain and obama every day. your relentless and and smugly superior coverage on this site has served to galvanize the anti-powers forces, maybe you could do the same for mccain.

    The anti-powers forces in your bathroom and in its mirror.

    why don’t you show the video you had up of west virginians for clinton again now that obama’s out begging for their votes? then they were toothless hicks deserving of nothing but scorn and contempt but today they represent the decent values of all poor but proud americans.

    I didn’t show it. Chris posted it. Go talk to him about it.

    so long as they don’t vote mccain.

    Let’s wait for it…

    obama’s mediocre bounce following a convention that looked like a coronation and a week’s worth of prime time television coverage shows just how weak he is.

    Actually, there was zero, zip, zilch “prime time television coverage” on the networks. All three ran their normally scheduled programming throughout the week. Only the cable news and C-Span ran with the convention. But you knew that, right?

    he plans to spend more than three times what mccain can spend to get himself elected, and yet you constantly and comically portray him as a “grassroots” candidate.

    Is the spending of money the only criterion you have to prove he’s not running a 50-state grassroots campaign? That’s rich.

    he is, in fact, the establishment candidate.

    I love it when your idiocy reaches its inevitable crescendo.

    you are so intellectually dishonest when it comes to politics that your innate republicanism shows like a bad card player’s tell.

    Well, I don’t make stuff up, like the esteemed editors of tabloid weeklies. But I find your mocking of my former republicanness hilarious given the support you’ve expressed for the republicans in just about any race I’ve written about on this site. I know you’re going to vote McCain, because you want more wars, more tax cuts for millionaires, no health care, and you think Palin’s a “10”. You hate Powers so much that you willingly do Davis’ bidding, even thought he’s not only also a former republican, but in fact gave them thousands and thousands of dollars over the years.

    You may not be a republican, but you sure seem to love them this election cycle.

    But don’t for a second think I don’t know what you’re up to.

  51. mike August 31, 2008 at 9:34 am #

    Hudsons going to come with you with caps locked, you may even be asked to show up at his book signing at the lewiston peach festival(shameless plug).

  52. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 1:53 pm #

    pundit…what am i up to?

    and the only book signing i’m doing this year is the one at the rock and roll hall of fame, cleveland, ohio, from 7:30 to 9 p.m. on november 19.

    i’d invite you, mike, but i don’t think you could afford to stay in a real hotel.

  53. TheRover August 31, 2008 at 2:52 pm #

    Palin is also going to reverse the effects of global warming by taking all that hottness out of Alaska and moving it to Washington.

  54. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 3:07 pm #

    Queen Carlotta Says:

    Again, insults and division… is that all the Barry Obama fan club offer?

    Hello?

    First of all, I’m not an Obama supporter, I am just seething at the stupidity of Republicans with this foolish VP choice.
    Secondly, My comment about GWB was in response to another poster’s making fun of Obama. What’s good for the goose….unless of course you are so blindly partisan (as you clearly are) that you can only recognize the failings of one side.

    Grow up.

  55. Byron August 31, 2008 at 3:33 pm #

    Hudson, you forgot to show us where BP said that tracking polls are meaningless. Or do you admit that you just made that up?

  56. Joanne L. Capone August 31, 2008 at 4:05 pm #

    I am thrilled that Senator Mc Cain has selected such a strong and personable and accomplished running mate who is unafraid to affirm human life and who chosed to allow her downs syndrome child to be born four months ago.

    Democrats for Life supports having life issues front and center in the debate at the highest levels.

    Democrats for Life hosted a Town Meeting this past Wednesday in Denver to allow legislators and others to discuss efforts to reduce the number of abortions in the United States. We honored Congressman Lincoln Davis of Tennessee who is a staunch pro life democrat for introducing legislation into Congress which was developed by Democrats for Life to reduce the number of abortions by 95% over ten years.

    Democrats for Life worked with the National Party to get language into the Democratic Platform which identifies the need to work to reduce abortions.

    There is no doubt that this is a historic election. All should be energized to vote in 2008.

    If anyone has questions about Democrats for Life and the proposals introduced into Congress I would refer them to our National website.

    Joanne L. Capone
    Vice President
    Democrats for Life of New York

  57. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 4:15 pm #

    i didn’t forget anything. there is no question that when john mccain went ahead in the daily polls a couple of weeks ago i posted it and pundit came back and said it was meaningless. if you think i’m going to waste time sifting through pundit’s archives to find it, and then post it, only to be attacked on a different bit of minutiae by the scientolog — uh — obama cultists who dwell on this site you’re crazy. i say he said it, he says he didn’t say it. that’s fine with me. believe what you want.

    i don’t see anyone demanding pundit answer my question, i.e. he said, “But don’t for a second think I don’t know what you’re up to.” and i asked, “pundit…what am i up to?”

    i’ve had my democratic credentials questioned because i supported clinton, a great democrat, instead of obama. i’ve had them questioned because i’ve been critical of jon powers in a primary race that will result in a DEMOCRAT winning.

    while i did point out that the same sort of misogynistic criticism was being leveled at gov. palin that was used on sen. clinton here during the primaries, i certainly haven’t expressed support “for the republicans in just about any race I’ve written about on this site,” as pundit accused me of.

    bush has been a disaster. i never voted for him. i have never voted for a republican for president in my life. has pundit?

    what republican governors, senators, congressmen or mayors has pundit voted for?

    he was a fucking registered republican for chrissakes, he must’ve voted for some of the assholes.

    in the interest of full disclosure, i did vote republican three times in pennsylvania when tom ridge was my congressman, and once in new york city, when guiliani ran for his second term as mayor. i’ll still argue that my support for them in those particuylar jobs and those particular times was not misplaced.

  58. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 4:16 pm #

    p.s. i love abortion and can only wish that the mothers of more obama supporters had had them.

  59. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 5:00 pm #

    If I hear one more person say Palin is so accomplished…I’m going to vomit.

    Accomplished?

    How low the bar has now been set.

    Obama has been in the thick of crating policy in the 5th LARGEST state as well as on a national level.

  60. The Humanist August 31, 2008 at 5:01 pm #

    My impression of Mike Hudson:

    I’m such a loyal Democrat that I constantly use right-wing framing and smearing when discussing the Democratic presidential nominee and I’ll boast proudly about voting for Republicans as useless and obnoxious as Tom “Captain Homeland Security” Ridge and Rudy “Noun, Verb, 9/11” Giuliani.

  61. Prodigal Son August 31, 2008 at 5:39 pm #

    @Jeff – Obama voted “present” more often than he voted for or against anything, while in the IL Senate. Since joining the US Senate, he has run for President for four years. He can point to no tangible accomplishments as a community organizer, and has no papers to his as a law professor. So what policy has he been in the thick of crafting.

    I’ve heard of Sarah Palin for only a couple days, and already I can tell you specifics about property tax relief, and ethical investigations that she has been part of over her 13 years in elected office (longer than Obama).

    That should make you vomit.

  62. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 5:43 pm #

    the elections that i cited took place long before either 9/11 or homeland security, obviously. point being, i’ve voted republican for exactly two candidates since 1976, when i voted for the first time.

    i just wondered, since there are so many “former republicans” here including our fine host, how much of the mess we now find ourselves in is due in fact to pundit and others like him, who now seem to be bringing hateful gop tactics into what, in my memory, had always been a fairly civil party.

  63. mike hudson August 31, 2008 at 5:48 pm #

    and pundit still refuses to answer!

    what is he hiding?

    a shameful voting record that includes support for william weld or mitt romney? a proud ballot cast for bush the elder?

    if he is too frightened to answer i’m sure he is hiding something.

  64. Buffalopundit August 31, 2008 at 6:01 pm #

    Thanks for asking, Mike, I was out enjoying a beautiful day with my family. Evidently you spent a gorgeous Sunday fighting with people on a website you term “stupid”.

    For whom have I voted? Bush I, Clinton x2, Gore, Kerry. I voted for Bill Weld in Massachusetts and Teddy Kennedy twice. I voted for McCain in the 2000 primary. I voted for Wes Clark, Dan Ward, and Nita Lowey. I voted for Jack Davis twice.

    As for what you’re up to, you know what it is, and so do I.

    You accused me twice now of saying that tracking polls don’t matter. I never said any such thing, which means you’re making stuff up. The fact that you couldn’t be bothered to research it makes you lazy, to boot.

    To hear you drone on about civility is, however, among the funnier things I’ve read today.

  65. Jon Splett August 31, 2008 at 6:57 pm #

    She’s got some valuable experience being a shitty sportscaster.

    Maybe Ed Kilgore can be secretary of state.

  66. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 9:29 pm #

    The only thing spectacular about Palin is her face.

    In this country where people fell in love with Debra LaFavre, don’t underestimate the degree to which all else will be forgiven…if you way above averge looking.

    Unfotunately, I’m not kidding.

    The speech she’s given twice already was not really that great, people just fell in love with her on the surface.

    Sandy Beach on WBEN kept repeating Friday how great he thought she was even though he knew almost nothing about her and didn’t even agree with some of her stances that he did know about.

    Was her *speech* that overwhelimingly outstanding? No, it really wasn’t. How else do you explain this sudden love affair?

  67. Dan August 31, 2008 at 11:26 pm #

    What is most predictable is the Dem’s response – “now you can’t call Obama unqualified anymore!! No backs to takes!”

    The Dem ticket is upside down – Biden has experience and Obama doesn’t. The GOP ticket is a nice balance. She has more years in public office than Obama. Period.

  68. Jeff August 31, 2008 at 11:54 pm #

    More years in public office?

    I guess the quality of experience and RELEVANCE of the magnitude of people you represent and affect is also unimportant.

    I wonder if you would be so generous had the tables been turned and we were talking about a Democrat with nothing but small-time backwoods experience.

    My guess is NO, you would be screaming about how this type decision puts our country in jeopardy.

    Very transparent. Sean Hannity would be proud.

  69. Queen Carlotta September 1, 2008 at 1:34 am #

    Jeff darling…

    I find it outrageous how *personal* the attacks against Palin have been on the comments section of this blog. Its breathtaking the misogyny that Alan has let pass. Allowing such rabid comments to pile up without comment tend to be out-of-character for BP. Alan’s silence on this matter is disappointing.

    Furthermore, Jeff, your rabid quick fire with *n-u-m-e-r-o-u-s* attacks against the Governor of Alaska would led any reasonable person to agree that you have an ax to grind. Its crystal clear that YOU have serious problems with the policies of McCain but simply aren’t talented enough to challenge his platform on its merits. Your flood of comments suggest a great amount of time invested in writing comments and responding to others. Being the filthy person that I am, I strong suggest that you do a google search for free porn and spend less time on this site. At the very least, you might find yourself happier with the world around you with more porn and less time on this blog.

    The Barry Obama fan club has gotten out of control with the insults directed at Palin. Most notably, how Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground has charged that Palin’s youngest child is in fact not hers and the charge by Alan Colmes that Palin is directly responsible for the child’s Down Syndrome. Alan, how would you respond if people had made very PERSONAL and outrageous attacks against you and your family when you ran for the EC Legislature?

    If Alan (BP) has any class and honor (and I would argue that he does) he should have an entry outside this comment section that directly addresses this matter. Desperate folks such as “Jeff” and “BuffaloMom” represent everything that is wrong with the current state of affairs in DC. Are insults, attacks and division really “change we can believe in”?

    If Alan can denounce over-zealous and irresponsible comments on BRO, he should do the same on his own site.

    Hugs and kisses.

  70. Jon Splett September 1, 2008 at 3:21 am #

    @’Queen Carlotta’ (BTW- You republicans might wanna down play the whole ‘entitled royalty’ image that comes along with a name like ‘Queen’)

    Is it a smear to point out she worked here up until 2002?

    Wasilla City Hall

    Seriously. If she was a man with the credentials she has, the media would be having a field day with it. I mean, seriously. We’re really suppose to be okay with an elderly war veteran living out his four years? It’s fun to think being in a prison camp makes you ‘so tough you’ll live forever’ but in reality, when you do a bunch of damage like that to your body, it breaks down earlier. McCain could easily die in office and we’ve got someone running the show whose foreign policy cred is that her state was next to Russia. I’m sure her and Putin go tiger hunting all the time but that doesn’t count.

    Oh and I totally believe she had the baby and she should win mother of the year for it. Her water breaks and she decides giving a speech in Texas is more important than going to a hospital, then she decides, “Hey, I’ll fly 8 hours to Alaska to deliver my premature child with down syndrome instead of seeking medical attention in Texas”.

    Here’s the news story on it: http://www.newsminer.com/news/2008/apr/22/palins-flight-labor-falls-under-scrutiny/

    And here’s a handy flow chart that explains it better: http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/4628/sarahpalinla4.png

    If the pregnancy was a cover up so her daughter, I’d at least be able to understand her motives. She’d be wanting to protect her kid from harm, albeit in a pretty eff’d up way. But giving a speech right before your about to give birth to a kid that already has the deck stacked against it? Sorry, but that’s being a shitty parent. If thinking that makes me a woman-hating caveman, I can get over my liberal guilt about it.

    You don’t have to be a Obama cultist to realize Sarah Palin is a joke. The fact democrats have even let the right try and frame her as legit is a testament to how little backbone they have.

  71. Jeff September 1, 2008 at 4:11 am #

    This is just the beginning of the unraveling of Palin’s *executive experience* charm:

    http://www.andrewhalcro.com/winning_the_gold_medal_in_spinning

    http://www.andrewhalcro.com/new_york_post_opinion_piece

    I hope she had a good weekend, because there’s a lot more of this type info in the pipeline. She is not the darling reformist so many are wanting to believe she is.

    McCain has made a very foolish move and that will become very apparent int he coming weeks.

  72. Jeff September 1, 2008 at 4:19 am #

    Oh, and this:

    http://www.andrewhalcro.com/transcanada_dissecting_the_decision

    She hasn’t done much as *executive*, and what she has done is not as pretty as her proponents would have you believe.

    Wait ’til the real newshounds start investigating the effects of her *management*. McCain would have been better advisez to choose Joel Giambra as VP.

  73. Jeff September 1, 2008 at 5:23 am #

    How do you think this will fit into an Obama/Biden ad:

    http://www.adn.com/sarahpalin/story/511471.html

  74. Buffalopundit September 1, 2008 at 7:38 am #

    @Queen Carlotta. It is the rare day that I get embroiled in debate in comments and I pick and choose the ones into which I delve. It is rarer still for me to respond to call-outs from the anonymous, but c’est la vie.

    I find it outrageous how *personal* the attacks against Palin have been on the comments section of this blog. Its breathtaking the misogyny that Alan has let pass. Allowing such rabid comments to pile up without comment tend to be out-of-character for BP. Alan’s silence on this matter is disappointing.

    Comments are open. I do not censor or delete them unless they’re defamatory. Misogyny does not equal defamation, and you’re welcome to do all the defense you want. If you’re accusing me of misogyny for not denouncing that of others, I don’t have enough time in the day to respond to every comment I find offensive.

    Furthermore, Jeff, your rabid quick fire with *n-u-m-e-r-o-u-s* attacks against the Governor of Alaska would led any reasonable person to agree that you have an ax to grind. Its crystal clear that YOU have serious problems with the policies of McCain but simply aren’t talented enough to challenge his platform on its merits. Your flood of comments suggest a great amount of time invested in writing comments and responding to others. Being the filthy person that I am, I strong suggest that you do a google search for free porn and spend less time on this site. At the very least, you might find yourself happier with the world around you with more porn and less time on this blog.

    Explain to me again how and why I’m supposed to ferret out offensive or sexist comments, and then why I shouldn’t have deleted your comment for the paragraph shown above.

    The Barry Obama fan club has gotten out of control with the insults directed at Palin. Most notably, how Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground has charged that Palin’s youngest child is in fact not hers and the charge by Alan Colmes that Palin is directly responsible for the child’s Down Syndrome. Alan, how would you respond if people had made very PERSONAL and outrageous attacks against you and your family when you ran for the EC Legislature?

    If I had made my family a singular conservative issue to underscore my pro-life bona fides, I’d expect scrutiny of it. I’ve read the timelines with respect to Palin’s most recent kid, and I agree that there’s something very fishy about it all, and that there are questions that need answering. So far, the preponderance of evidence has proven to me that Trig is Sarah Palin’s grandson, not her son. Since he is a breathing example of her pro-life position, some clarification would be in order. Most certainly, QC, if this was Michelle Obama we were talking about, you’d be demanding “Barry” give you answers. As for Colmes accusing her of causing the kid’s Down’s Syndrome, I haven’t seen it here or anywhere else, and I avoid Hannity & Colmes like the plague itself, so why that’s relevant to any discussion here is anyone’s guess. As a matter of fact, QC, I think you’re the first commenter to bring up the question of who Trig’s mother is on this site, so you’re sort of defeating the purpose, don’t you think?

    If Alan (BP) has any class and honor (and I would argue that he does) he should have an entry outside this comment section that directly addresses this matter. Desperate folks such as “Jeff” and “BuffaloMom” represent everything that is wrong with the current state of affairs in DC. Are insults, attacks and division really “change we can believe in”?

    Alan has both class and honor, and that’s why he lets just about every comment go up, including ones that QC finds offensive, and he even permits QC to respond to them.

    If Alan can denounce over-zealous and irresponsible comments on BRO, he should do the same on his own site.

    Perhaps, QC, you might be a bit clearer on what you consider to be “over-zealous” and “irresponsible” criticism of Sarah Palin. I mean, Sandy Beach really was gushing about her as if he had a crush on her. That speaks poorly of Sandy, not Palin.

  75. Prodigal Son September 1, 2008 at 10:31 am #

    Pundit, I do respect you (and BuffaloGeek, who posted on this as well) for moderating political discourse in Buffalo. But any endorsement on your part (or his) of the slime being peddled by the far left is beyond the pale.

    “So far, the preponderance of evidence has proven to me that Trig is Sarah Palin’s grandson, not her son.”

    Really, the preponderenance of evidence proves to you that a left-wing conspiracy theory is the most likely scenario.

    http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/09/she-looks-pregn.html

    Evening the DailyKos is backing off:
    (http://dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/31/234157/516/1017/581734),
    because they realize its about the backlash big time.

    Its taken three days for the “tolerant” and “progressive” left wing to start trashing a 16 year old child, and analyzing whether she was just chubby, or secretly pregnant.

    Palin’s pro-life record, and personal example, is certainly an issue. But since when is it okay to drag a 16 year old into the middle of it? Since when are a candidate’s non-adult children fair game? Republicans and the media left Chelsea Clinton alone, no matter what he father did with that woman. Can’t have the same respect for three days for Sarah Palin’s children?

    I expect this ridiculousness from far-left (and right – see McCain is 2000) wing idiots, but any credence given to this filth by any thinking person is unconscionable.

  76. Jon Splett September 1, 2008 at 11:51 am #

    You mean the way John McCain had respect for Chelsea Clinton when she was underage?

    http://www.salon.com/news/1998/06/25newsb.html

  77. Byron September 1, 2008 at 11:55 am #

    And Rush Limbaugh called Chelsea the family dog or some such thing. But it’s those mean libruls that makes Prodigal Son head for the fainting couch.

  78. Haterade September 1, 2008 at 11:57 am #

    The alleged McCain joke : “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
    Because her father is Janet Reno.”

    Should have been – “Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
    Because her mother is Hillary Clinton.”

  79. Kevin Hardwick September 1, 2008 at 12:08 pm #

    The things that Rush, McCain and others said about an awkward, vulnerable Chelsea Clinton in the 1990s were shameful. The garbage being spread today about the Palin children is no less so.

  80. Queen Carlotta September 1, 2008 at 12:09 pm #

    Alan,

    Have you no shame?

    You ran for office. How would you feel if such gutter tactics were used against your children? Of your very comprehensive response, I think its glaring that you never answered that question.

    If the same things were said about Michelle Obama and her two daughters, you bet your ass I would be uttering the same protest!!!

    What’s wrong is wrong – I dont give a fuck what side its coming from. You have correctly, in the past, denounced BRO for outrageous and irresponsible posts/comments that followed articles. In order to be fair, you should be consistent… You have pointed out low blow personal tactics used against Jon Powers – why not a universal standard?

    Jon Splett… darling… Please, please, please get your head out of your arse: 1. I’m not a Republican and 2. Queen Carlotta is a character from John Water’s “Desperate Living” which I think accurately defines modern American living (think satire). If Mondo Video was still open, I would suggest you go rent the movie…

    If you have problems (and it is crystal clear that you do) with the ideas of John McCain, then go after and attack those ideas like a barracuda on the hunt. It appears that some very partisan people have serious issues with the policies of McCain but simply are not articulate enough to debate those ideas. Consequently, they lash out with personal attacks.

    Should a 4 month old child and a 16 year old teenager should be trashed on Daily Kos, Democratic Underground and BuffaloPundit because over-zealous writers have neither the wit nor understanding of McCain’s policies?

    With such very low standards built on insults and division, I wonder what else encompasses “change we can believe in.”?

    XXOO

    lube and dildos
    QC

  81. Byron September 1, 2008 at 12:33 pm #

    McCain and Limbaugh = commenters/diarists on Daily Kos??

  82. Chris Smith September 1, 2008 at 12:39 pm #

    The Palin rumors were kicking around Alaska for months by all accounts and the Obama campaign has had absolutely nothing to do with any of the discussion about Palin and her son/grandson. If it were brought to their attention, I am certain they would dismiss it as Internet bunk and not worthy of commentary. They have dealt with ridiculous right wing rumors for months and have been forced to justify everything from Obama’s place of birth, attendance at a Muslim terrorist training school, and assorted propaganda related to his supposed ties to Islam.

    The very essence of Palin’s selection is her pro-life, pro-family, fundamentalist Christian principles. To see bloggers hop on the bandwagon and follow up on months of rumors is not surprising. Once Sullivan posted about it, I felt comfortable posting about it. Certainly, it should not be outside the boundaries for the media to ask Palin to release her medical records for review and for reporters to look into allegations which challenge her fundamentalist background. Especially since that is clearly the only reason she is on the ticket; to energize the base as a pro-life, theocon, creationist.

    After all, she’s already proved a liar on the “Bridge To Nowhere” issue, why can’t people ask further questions? Politics is a dirty and ugly business in the Internet age, if you don’t have the stones, get out.

  83. Jon Splett September 1, 2008 at 12:49 pm #

    Well now we have proof it’s her baby….the McCain camp just confirmed her daughter is knocked up….

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26496189/

  84. Jeff September 1, 2008 at 12:55 pm #

    Queen Carlotta

    Darling,

    The biggest problem I have with McCain right now is his stupid choice for VP. If noticing her complete lack of qualification for the job seems to be misogynistic to you, than I guess we can assume your criticisms of Obama are born of racism.

    If you are referring to the pregnancy controversy:
    1) I didn’t allude to that, and
    2) I don’t believe what’s being spread.

    Her unpreparedness soeaks volumes. The Dems don’t have to resort to right-wing smear tactics to have this choice backfire on McCain.

    As it turns out, McCain Palin really does look a lot more like 4 more years of Bush.

  85. Kevin Hardwick September 1, 2008 at 1:04 pm #

    My guess is that the Palin family will cope with this latest challenge with grace and dignity. Let’s give them the opportunity to do so. If you want to criticize her for being Governor of a state with only about 60,000 more people than Gov. Howard Dean’s Vermont, that’s fair game. But uncless we find out she’s acting hypocritically by urging her daughter to have an abortion, we should all have the decency to let them deal with this as best they can as millions of other parents have dealt with similar situations over the years. To do otherwise would make those who claim to care about the well-being of others the real hypocrites.

  86. Jeff September 1, 2008 at 1:11 pm #

    Anyone care to comment about her misleading proclaimations of “No thanks, we’ll build our own bridge” even though they KEPT THE MONEY!

    That’s nothing compared to the details of the few things she has done as Governor and how they are more similar to things a Democrat would do, far from complying with Republican doctrine.

    The unraveling has just begun.

    She is inconsistant, unprepared, more of the same and to be a heartbeat away from the most demanding job in the world.

    Heaven help us.

  87. Prodigal Son September 1, 2008 at 1:42 pm #

    Byron – Rush is an idiot – I include him on the far-right fringe that I expect this from. So no fainting couch required, but I appreciate the concern.

    Jon – McCain’s joke was obviously tasteless – I didn’t realize he ever said that. That doesn’t make this less so.

    Chris – I never said politics wasn’t ugly. Slime at Gov Palin is one thing – directed at the children is another. That’s where I think the line is. Obama had to deal with internet rumors about him being a Muslim, not his daughters being trained as terrorists (or some other stupid thing). Cover all the “Bridge to Nowhere” nonsense you want – I don’t see how that justifies attacking her children. Or Obama’s children. Or Chelsea Clinton, when she was younger. You say that since rumors had circulated in Alaska for months, we should expert the bloggers to pick it up. Yes, I expect the DailyKos to be over-the-top and so eager to knock the GOP down, they will say and do anything. I don’t expect that from you or Alan, even if we disagree on many policy issues.

    I understand you posting about it, once it hits a site like The Atlantic. Its what you post, and how you frame it.

    Reporting that its being convered, is one thing. Saying the “preponderance on evidence” supports the nonsense (Pundit did that, not you) is something else.

    Put down the glass and step away from the Koolaid.

  88. Queen Carlotta September 1, 2008 at 1:49 pm #

    The assault on Palin are gutter tactics. These attacks would be similar to spreading rumors that Joe Biden had his first wife killed for the insurance money. Palin’s young children should be off limits.

    One of the greatest gusts that pushed Obama towards securing the Democratic nomination was Daily Kos. Barry Obama allows such gutter attacks and yet has the audacity to state that he is “change we can believe in.” Make no mistake, he could make one phone call and you would never read another sentence on this matter in eiter DK or Democratic Underground.

    Insults and continued division. Obama sounds more like a third term of GW Bush.

  89. Byron September 1, 2008 at 1:57 pm #

    Yeah, and McCain or Rove or whoever could shut down Little Green Footballs and Free Republic and – and – well, you get the idea.

  90. Byron September 1, 2008 at 2:09 pm #

    McCain’s press release on his VP-nominee’s daughter:

    “Bristol Palin made the decision on her own to keep the baby,” McCain aides said, adding, “If elected, Senator McCain and Governor Palin will work to ensure that no other women will have the right to make that decision for themselves.”

    OK, I added that last bit.

  91. Prodigal Son September 1, 2008 at 2:36 pm #

    Ok, even I think that’s funny.

  92. Queen Carlotta September 1, 2008 at 3:52 pm #

    Barry Obama himself (to his credit) has stated:

    “I have said before and I will repeat again: People’s families are off limits,” Obama said. “And people’s children are especially off-limits. This shouldn’t be part of our politics. It has no relevance to Gov. Palin’s performance as a governor or her potential performance as a vice president. So I would strongly urge people to back off these kinds of stories. You know my mother had me when she was 18 and how a family deals with issues and teenage children, that shouldn’t be a topic of our politics.”

  93. Byron September 1, 2008 at 3:53 pm #

    MONROE, Mich. (AP) — Barack Obama is condemning campaign rumors involving the children of candidates, including Republican vice presidential contender Sarah Palin. He says he will fire any campaign worker that violates his rule.

    Obama, speaking Monday to reporters in Michigan, said he thinks “people’s families are off limits, and people’s children are especially off limits.”

    Naturally, that won’t be enough for QC, since Obama didn’t shut down any unaffiliated political websites. But still . . .

  94. Byron September 1, 2008 at 3:54 pm #

    Ah, she beat me to it.

  95. Byron September 1, 2008 at 3:58 pm #

    I wonder if Obama still represents the third George Bush term?

  96. Byron September 2, 2008 at 3:32 pm #

    Obama 50 McSame 42!

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