So Many Teaparties

20 Apr

We’re all Victorians now.

Buffalo has now seen at least four teaparties that I know of, two of them held the same week.

The two most recent ones took place mercifully while I was out of the country or in transit, but the Libertarian one held on the 18th was billed as a teaparty with a “focus” and a “plan”.

Held in a bar, with a march to City Hall and back, its focus was on the same stuff the Freeners have been yelling into the ether about for years now. From what I can gather, we have to adopt Austrian School laissez faire economics and return the government to what it was in pre-Constitutional, post-revolutionary America. Or something. But you have to cherry-pick which founding father you agree with and pay attention to.

Here, incidentally, is the “plan” set forth at the last tea party.

It seems to be heavy on symbolism, light on action. If one was a cynic, one might almost think it was giving local Ron Paul supporters something to do. And from a fundamental standpoint, I’d never, ever associate with the paranoid Birchers here. The full “plan” set forth after the jump. “DO IT!”

A 12-Point Plan for Direct Citizen Action
Instructions:

• Read the speech at PoliticalClassDismissed.com/speech
• Tape this sheet to your refrigerator
• DO IT!

1. Decide that you’ve had enough. You want to do something to reverse America’s economic collapse. That something is nothing less than restoring the American Republic. America’s problems of today were caused by the abandonment of that Republic slowly over a long period of time. Pledge allegiance to the principles of the American Revolution.
2. Write a letter to your family, friends and neighbors declaring your support for restoring the American Republic.
3. Invite them to a meeting.
4. Educate yourself on American history, politics and economics.
5. Hold the meeting and explain to them what you have learned and urge them to do the same and then hold their own meeting with their own social circle.
6. Display the symbol of the restoration of the Republic, the Betsy Ross flag.
7. Patronize businesses that display this flag.
8. Boycott businesses that bankroll the political class.
9. Educate yourself on the rights of jurors. If you are called for jury duty, understand that the founding fathers designed the system as a check on government power. Remember that when you are in the jury room deliberating.
10. Patronize books, blogs, websites, newspapers, magazines, think tanks, and political groups that were right about the economic collapse. Mises.org., IlanaMercer.com and others. See our page for a complete list.
11. For political activism, join an existing Patriot group. Don’t reinvent the wheel. See our page for recommended groups. While politics is not our best field of battle at the moment, as our movement grows, we will soon be able to launch a successful frontal assault on the political class.
12. Follow these websites for continuing developments in the tea party movement: PoliticalClassDismissed.com, FreeNewYork.org and BuffaloLiberty.org

49 Responses to “So Many Teaparties”

  1. hank April 20, 2009 at 7:27 am #

    last time I checked, the citizens of this country have the right to peaceably assemble and express their dissent of the actions of their government.

    They also have the right to make request to the government for a redress of their grievances. WHETHER OR NOT YOU AGREE WITH THEM.

    These were two of the pillars of the founding of this country.

    So, what’s your fucking problem?

  2. Mike April 20, 2009 at 8:05 am #

    I would be willing to bet that NONE of these ‘teabaggers’ actually have ancestry that dates back to the ‘founding fathers’. My guess is that most or all of their families came here in the late 19th or early 20th centuries. All of these references to the original principals are comical as most of these people’s relatives came to this country as immigrants under an immigration policy that none of them would want to have in place today. They play dress up with their revolutionary garb as if that means anything today. They want us to go back to a system of government that existed at a time when it took 2 days to travel from Eden to Williamsville. These people are a joke and so are their tea parties…taking an event like the Boston Tea Party and using that to rail against the ELECTED government.

  3. Jim Ostrowski April 20, 2009 at 8:38 am #

    And you like the system of government that was in place BEFORE 1776: mercantilism and centralized executive rule from a distant capital.

  4. Jim Ostrowski April 20, 2009 at 8:46 am #

    “taking an event like the Boston Tea Party and using that to rail against the ELECTED government.”

    Talking points are not thought. We all railed against Bush and the Republican Congress for eight years and they were elected too. So what?

    And the founders were not democrats so not a single one would object to railing against elected officials per se.

  5. Jim Ostrowski April 20, 2009 at 8:49 am #

    So many fallacies, so little time.

    Is the Petition clause limited to election season?

  6. mike April 20, 2009 at 9:30 am #

    Sure hank we believe you, why did bush run off Camp Casey? Oh yeah i forgot : Cindy Sheehan has been informed that beginning Thursday, 10 August 2005 she and her companions will be considered a threat to national security and will be arrested. Bush raised the theat level to code Brown (because he checked his underware.)

  7. Steven April 20, 2009 at 9:56 am #

    “light on action” on action you say? I think blogging is a lot lighter on action then hundreds of citizens assembling to protest oppressive taxes.

    This is my first time commenting on your blog. I must say I am disappointed at your post.

    When I realize I am being “surcharged” so other people can have cell phones I am pissed. When I see someone who is supposed to be homeless taking pictures of the first lady with his cell phone in a soup kitchen I am amazed. When I realize my children will be forced to inherit the largest debt this world has every seen I am outraged.

    Instead of making snide comments and cherry picking a few out of the hundreds of people that show up at these events, how about addressing those issues and starting a serious discourse? Insulting all of us that are disgusted with the mounting national debt and trying to make it seem as if we are all walking around in lock step is disingenuous at best.

  8. Mike Walsh April 20, 2009 at 10:28 am #

    @Steven:

    “how about addressing those issues and starting a serious discourse”

    Don’t hold your breath…..

  9. hank April 20, 2009 at 12:30 pm #

    @mike—Camp Casey and nationwide tea parties attended by hundreds of thousands of angry taxpayers is apples and oranges. Of course you don’t know the difference, you just eat what your keepers put through the food slot.

  10. Haterade April 20, 2009 at 12:53 pm #

    “We’re all Victorians now” …. LMAO !

  11. mike April 20, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    Wow hank you are thick, I just cited one example of the Nazi policies of the cheney/bush 8 years. Here is a link, in your world was Cindy Shehan the only protest you can recall? I wonder if the tea parties had permits? Also they are slobs on one side of town we had the river keepers(liberals) cleaning up along the river and then the right wingers leaving Tim horton cups, water bottles, and wet tissues littered all over the street. I am happy we have this new bottle bill, im sorry if your to fat and lazy to return your bottles.

  12. The Humanist April 20, 2009 at 1:27 pm #

    @Steven – When I see someone who is supposed to be homeless taking pictures of the first lady with his cell phone in a soup kitchen I am amazed”

    Are you also amazed that there are cheap, disposable cellphones that can be purchased anywhere….and can also be pre-paid, so there’s no need for billing? Or, in your little fantasy world, cell phones are a privilege reserved only for the well-to-do?

    As TBogg pointed out, were you also amazed that the people standing in soup lines during the Depression were wearing such spiffy suits and natty hats?

    “how about addressing those issues and starting a serious discourse”

    OK, I’m game….don’t you feel like a fucking idiot for attending a protest of “oppressive” taxes at a time when your income taxes are being reduced?

  13. Russell April 20, 2009 at 2:10 pm #

    Humanist, the way cell phones are taxed, they’re treated as a luxury. Yes, it should be surprising to see people who cannot afford food spending money on something viewed as a luxury.

    Yeah, mike, I’m sure only right wingers litter. Every water bottle, coffee cup, or tissue ever used by anyone else always found its way to the recycling bin. And no one on the right was cleaning up trash along the water. I had no idea being a Liberal was a requirement for that volunteer activity.

    Sometimes it still amazes me how prejudice so many of you on the left are.

  14. The Humanist April 20, 2009 at 2:44 pm #

    @RussyPoo – do tell about this oppressive “cell phone” tax. Because I don’t see it at the Best Buy…or in the corner store…or at a check-cashing center, all of which charge $10-20 for a no-contract phone. Do you mean that awful, horrific 8.25% NYS sales tax?

    You must be living in 1986 if you think cell phones are a luxury, reserved only for the upper class. Did it ever occur to you that a poor person looking for a job needs a cell phone for contact from a potential employer or housing opportunity?

    Here’s another thing you clowns that buy into this ridiculous meme never seem to question – why do you automatically assume the gentleman taking the picture is homeless? Because he’s black and he’s in a homeless shelter? I bet you think he’s a real good dancer too.

  15. rastamick April 20, 2009 at 3:18 pm #

    Didn’t we see the Americanized version of Hayek’s economic plans as it played out across South America most notably in the Pinochet regime with disappearances, privatization of national resources, torture centers and everything from skyrocketing unemployment to basic food shortages and abject misery for the citizens ? On the upside though the same treaties and international law that arrested Pincochet when he tried to get medical attention may also be used against the BushCheney Mafia if any of them are dumb enough to travel abroad. Notice too that they seem to be staying stateside for this very reason.

  16. Russell April 20, 2009 at 3:23 pm #

    Humanist, I had no idea you adored me so much, but I’m enjoying your pet names for me. I just hope you don’t call them out as you’re in your bed at night.

    I never said the man was homeless. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

    And it seems you’re the one living in 1986. Most phones come free, or heavily discounted, with a plan these days. Even pay-as-you-go phones are greatly discounted. So I’m not talking about the 8.25% sales tax on the unit. I’m talking about the 20-25% in taxes and fees the government (federal and state) charges. These costs are hidden in a pay-as-you-go phone, but they still affect the rate.

    Just because something is labelled a luxury item or is taxed accordingly by the government, as cell phones are, does not mean they’re reserved for the wealthy class, but I know it’s difficult for you to get over your class prejudices.

    And no, it never occurred to me that a poor person needs a cell phone. I’m doing pretty well financially, thank G-d, and I do not need a cell phone. I found a job and a house and manage to pay all my bills and then some and still have plenty of money left over each month without the use of a cell phone. Thankfully, I am not eating in soup kitchens, but if I were getting to that point, I can think of plenty of expenses I would cut out if I couldn’t afford to put food on my family’s table and if I had a cell phone, it’d be near the top of that list.

  17. Byron April 20, 2009 at 3:43 pm #

    Something like 85% of Americans have cell phones. It doesn’t seem very noteworthy to me that a guy getting food at a soup kitchen (if that’s what he was doing) had one, but wingnuts are funny people. Oh, and Steven said the guy was “supposed to be homeless”, whatever that means. AFAIK, no one ever proved or even offered evidence that the guy was homeless, or even poor. He could easily have been a volunteer at the kitchen, or just a guy who wanted a picture of the First Lady. Which was Humanist’s point.

  18. The Humanist April 20, 2009 at 4:04 pm #

    @Russell – my class prejudices? Project much?

    Thank you for acknowledging your cluelessness when it comes to the real world. Congrats to you for the job and the house and the gall to judge how others should live. I guess the shelter denizen who’s looking for a job should heed your sterling advice and list “homeless shelter” as his contact number when asked by a potential employer….that’ll move him right up to the top of the hire list, for sure.

  19. Jim Ostrowski April 20, 2009 at 4:57 pm #

    I love when a liberal pretends to know something about libertarianism by dropping a name like Hayek. Hayek wasn’t a libertarian.

  20. Mike Walsh April 20, 2009 at 4:59 pm #

    @ The Humanist:

    “OK, I’m game….don’t you feel like a fucking idiot for attending a protest of “oppressive” taxes at a time when your income taxes are being reduced?”

    You don’t see the aggregate picture. This is just money shuffling and misdirection. You guys buy all this bullshit without paying attention to details. And….Bush did the same thing. Put your thinking cap on and ask yourself where all the money is coming from to pay for the “stimulus”.

    This tea party locally was not just about federal taxes. State and local taxes and fees was the brunt of the ire.

    You “progressives” always listen to this feel-good, Robin Hood, tax the rich crap all the time without ever following the money. Guess who ends up paying most of these taxes, fees and regulatory burdens you want imposed on the evil capitalists?

  21. Mike In WNY April 20, 2009 at 5:02 pm #

    @The Humanist, perhaps you should do some research before hurling invectives at people. On the surface it may appear that income taxes are being reduced for what Obama claims is 95% of America. The reality is that inflation and dollar deflation resulting from his economic policies will cannibalize any perceived savings and actually “cost” 95% of American in the long run.

    Also, Humanist, it is you who judge how others should live. Every time you support tax policies that take from one group of people and give to another, you are making a judgment that people don’t have the right to their own earnings. That is class discrimination.

  22. Ray April 20, 2009 at 5:34 pm #

    Don’t bother trying to explain economics and monetary policy to progressives, just setting their eyes on it makes their eyes bleed. Unless it’s that glassy eyed Nobel Prize Winning asshat Paul Krugman and his economic fantasies. He could say anything (and he does) and liberals eat it up like it was gospel.

  23. Russell April 20, 2009 at 5:56 pm #

    So, Humanist, you are assuming that he’s homeless? Why is that? Because he’s black? Project much?

    If you go to any credit or financial counselor, they’ll tell you the samething I said. I’m not judging anyone. I’m just explain how to budget. Seriously, how can it be wrong to say food is more of a necessity than a cell phone?

  24. Buffalopundit April 20, 2009 at 6:51 pm #

    @Hank: of course the teabaggers have the right to assemble and do whatever they want. Just like I have the right to criticize it.

    @Ostrowski: I have no clue what your comments are referring to.

    @Steven:

    “light on action” on action you say? I think blogging is a lot lighter on action then hundreds of citizens assembling to protest oppressive taxes.

    Are you accusing me of merely blogging?

    This is my first time commenting on your blog. I must say I am disappointed at your post.

    When I realize I am being “surcharged” so other people can have cell phones I am pissed. When I see someone who is supposed to be homeless taking pictures of the first lady with his cell phone in a soup kitchen I am amazed. When I realize my children will be forced to inherit the largest debt this world has every seen I am outraged.

    How do you know the guy was homeless? What’s so special about a cellphone? Where was the outrage when Bush took the Clinton surplus and flipped it into a massive deficit? This is all so transparently disingenuous.

    Instead of making snide comments and cherry picking a few out of the hundreds of people that show up at these events, how about addressing those issues and starting a serious discourse? Insulting all of us that are disgusted with the mounting national debt and trying to make it seem as if we are all walking around in lock step is disingenuous at best.

    This is my blog, and I make snide comments about whatever I damn well please. I have spent loads of money and time trying to address issues and starting a serious discourse, but the purpose of this blog isn’t necessarily to do that.

    Perhaps you should read more often or more carefully, at which point a comment such as yours would be more persuasive.

  25. Jim Ostrowski April 20, 2009 at 7:24 pm #

    Didn’t we see the Americanized version of Hayek’s economic plans as it played out across South America most notably in the Pinochet regime with disappearances, privatization of national resources, torture centers and everything from skyrocketing unemployment to basic food shortages and abject misery for the citizens ? On the upside though the same treaties and international law that arrested Pincochet when he tried to get medical attention may also be used against the BushCheney Mafia if any of them are dumb enough to travel abroad. Notice too that they seem to be staying stateside for this very reason.
    Russell on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 3:23 pm

  26. Byron April 20, 2009 at 7:39 pm #

    Typical Freener Swarm. Yawn.

  27. Mike Walsh April 20, 2009 at 8:02 pm #

    @Pundit:

    “Where was the outrage when Bush took the Clinton surplus and flipped it into a massive deficit? ”

    Right on our websites and blogs for the last eight years.

    Perhaps you should read more often or more carefully.

  28. RaChaCha April 20, 2009 at 8:20 pm #

    These do seem to be breaking out all over, don’t they–? But what may appear to be a gaggle of baggers ain’t necessarily so. Saturday we had a group of about 25 for Buffalo Tours docent training, standing across the street from the Electric Tower hearing about the history and architecture of the building. Someone drove by yelling “Go Obama!!” apparently thinking we were up to some teabaggery.

    Um…so does that mean that this teabag movement is actually a thinly veiled anti-Obama thang–? I’m so confused…

  29. RaChaCha April 20, 2009 at 8:29 pm #

    What I’d love to see is a “handbag” movement. Everyone dresses up like Ruth Buzzi (http://www.webpan.com/thelaughin/images/show/ruth_buzzi/laugh-in_buzzi.jpg ) and heads to Albany to smack the Legislature up side the head with their purses.

  30. Mike Walsh April 20, 2009 at 8:46 pm #

    @ Pundit:

    “Since that question wasn’t directed to you, I fail to see why you answered it.”

    This whole thread was directed at the tea party movement and our libertarian one in particular. That’s why I answered it.

  31. Haterade April 20, 2009 at 10:42 pm #

    @ Russell … Luxury smuxury. Haven’t you seen the “government supported” free cell phones ?

    https://www.safelinkwireless.com/EnrollmentPublic/home.aspx

    Even the minutes roll over.

  32. Steven April 21, 2009 at 12:07 am #

    @The Humanist – I am sure there is someone that thinks you ranting and raving and cursing in every sentence make you look passionate about your subject matter. I am also sure most of those people are not over the age of 14 or never graduated from high school.

    Your points are so simple minded and easy to refute it almost isnt worth the time but here you go, First and foremost people are now getting cell phones for free from a surcharge paid by paying customers. I have a job and a career I dont need you to buy me a cell phone. Its that simple. You are not familiar with the concept of living within your own means?

    And that silly statement about the great depression and hats? What was that about? There was no surcharge on hats to give free hats to people that coulnt afford it.

    @buffalopundit – Where was the outrage when Bush took the Clinton surplus and flipped it into a massive deficit?

    Say what? Your adressing that at me? I think its pretty well known what I thought of Bush over on speakup. Maybe you need to do some reading and stop drinking the kool aid the media is feeding everyone about this only being republicans.

    With that comment you made my point for me. You just dont get it. I am tired of being knickle and dimed to death at every turn so someone can get something free I worked hard to get.

  33. Matt Bova April 21, 2009 at 6:00 am #

    I’ve never been to one of these “teabagging” conventions, but I often imagine them being just like a Little Britain sketch:

  34. Mike Walsh April 21, 2009 at 8:22 am #

    200 ignorant middle-aged, middle-class people walked down to Niagara Square protesting a federal income tax reduction? When did that happen?

  35. Ray April 21, 2009 at 9:47 am #

    Progressives must love magic shows and probably think the illusions are real.
    They easily believe that government sleight of hand is the real thing no matter how many times the tricks have been debunked for the illusions that they are.

    The myth of the Clinton surplus:
    http://www.craigsteiner.us/articles/16

    So why wouldn’t they believe in the so-called Obama tax cut? Watch my right hand, I giveth you a tax cut. Just don’t pay attention to my left hand where I take it all away with the inflation tax and more.

  36. Steven April 21, 2009 at 4:11 pm #

    Pundit – So, tell me I don’t get it, and I tell you it’s a temper tantrum by ignorant middle-aged, middle-class people who watch prime time cable “news” or belong to 9-12 or Fox Nation.

    Now your just being offensive, and I cant tell whether you are doing it on purpose or if you really don’t realize how offensive you are being. It just doesn’t occur to you that some people don’t want there children saddled with the highest debt in the history of the world. For what ever reason you just refuse to except that and keep touting the party line about fox news and evil republicans in the shadows.

    Just like I disagreed with the direction the country was moving in socially under Bush I am terrified of how its moving economically under Obama.

    Conspicuously absent from all the bail outs and goodies being passed out is any plan to pay all this back. That doesn’t seem to bother you either which amazes me. Everyone with children should be concerned about what all this debt means for there future.

    A lot of the comments I saw on here border on the ludicrous, comparing free cell service for some that others are forced to pay for with hats people bought during the great depression……… does that make sense on any level? Someone dropping the oft told fable about 95% of Americans are getting a tax break. Here is a news flash for the uninformed: 95% of Americans don’t pay taxes and I didn’t need Fox news or a Republican to tell me that.

    If you disagree with the Tax protestors that’s fine, but to try to paint it as something only libertarians and republicans that are mad because they lost the election are doing is wrong. Plenty of people are concerned with this entitlement society that’s being built, I imagine even more like myself are concerned with what all this debt means to our future as a country and what it means for our children’s futures.

  37. Mike Walsh April 21, 2009 at 4:25 pm #

    Well said, Steven.

    Of course, if you get a response it will be more partisan drivel. It seems like some of the folks here can’t see or think beyond liberal talking points.

    Your statement about shifting costs on to our children is something I’ve brought up here before. The response has been dead silence. Anything that makes them uncomfortable they prefer not to think or comment about. It IS stealing from the next generation. Plain and simple.

  38. rastamick April 21, 2009 at 8:23 pm #

    @ jim paul, hayek’s the grandaddy of your whole economic hope and dream and I never dropped it I heard it from your colleague WNYmike when I tied him to Friedman another hero of the free marketeers. i love when a grim freeper rambles on and on and on with about 50 comments in that pompous pedantic wind tunnel of libertarian schtick and actually thinks anyone gives a shit about what he says…

  39. Mike Walsh April 21, 2009 at 9:57 pm #

    Still dead silence about stealing from our children….

  40. Mike Walsh April 21, 2009 at 9:59 pm #

    @Pundit:

    “The only Hayek that matters in the world is part Mexican, part Lebanese and goes by “Salma”.”

    We’ve found common ground….

  41. Ray April 21, 2009 at 10:25 pm #

    I betcha Pundit and rastamick never read “The Road to Serfdom”
    Why would they anyway? It would just make them uncomfortable..

    Mr Walsh you nailed it when you said that all you get is dead silence when something “makes them uncomfortable”.

    Dead silence too about the Myth of the Clinton Surplus and Obama’s tax cut illuson.

    That’s another progressive magic trick they play on their own mind, if they try real hard not to think about the uncomfortable, it makes it disappear.

  42. Steven April 21, 2009 at 11:55 pm #

    @ pundit

    Your still doing it. Your still talking about Ostrowski and Obama and I am talking about debt. Stop with the politics of personality already! I am not a libertarian and while I find Jim’s passion admirable I am not one of his followers. That’s what you guys refuse to get. It isn’t about this guy or that guy its about the direction this country is moving in, the debt we are accumulating and the future.

    We aren’t even in the same conversation.

    Honestly? I think McCain might have done the same thing. It seems everyone’s answer to everything now is throw money at it without regard for the who what when and where’s of how that money is going to be paid back.

    It might not matter to you that one dollar surcharge for this, or that two dollar surcharge for that so someone else can get what you labored for for free. Guess what? It matters to a lot of us. I cant afford it. You can? Great then donate to charity. That I will applaud. The government taking my money I will not.

    Unlike some of you I can not afford a 200K + suburban home. I live on the west side in what can most kindly be described as a “working class” neighborhood. I have worked since the age of 17 and actually toughed it out enough to send one of my kids to catholic high school by digging thru the couch cushions for change for two years. I didn’t get him in there by getting handouts from others and if I could have I wouldn’t have because that’s not a lesson I would teach my kids.

    Those little extra surcharges might not mean much to the in ground pool in the backyard, six figure + a year income, bunch but they mean a helluva lot to me, a guy that has got to check his bank account before ordering La Nova’s Pizza..

    I said my peace and I am done now. I am very fond of you but this perception you have that the only people pissed about mounting national debt is Libertarians and Evil Republicans is just plain wrong. I sincerely hope you see that one day.

  43. Buffalopundit April 22, 2009 at 5:45 am #

    @Steven – you evidently didn’t read what I wrote, and you didn’t see the original post carefully enough, and you’ve jettisoned my request that comments be on-topic.

    The topic of the original post was Ostrowski’s 4/18 tea party and my thoughts on it. Naturally, then, my comments below the post are going to stick to that topic.

    And it is this guy or that guy. Ostrowski is trying to build a movement – he’s been trying for years. This is just the most recent example. That’s what the post was about.

    But you want to talk about “debt”, and claim that I have ignored that topic. Well, you’re wrong. I specifically addressed the deficit spending in my latest reply to you. I’m sorry you missed it, but it took up a pretty big chunk of it.

    That tea party on 4/18 – the one that’s the topic of this post – it wasn’t to protest a dollar surchage on this or that. On the separate topic of the state budget, I’m on board with you. I agree that the nickel and diming of NYS taxpayers – particularly those upstate – is egregious and should stop.

    Ostrowski’s 4/18 tea party was what he billed as the first shot in a nonviolent revolution. The revolution he seeks has the US adopting extreme, radical laissez faire economics as espoused and set forth by his heroes of the Austrian school of economics, and that libertarians like Ron Paul run the country, return us to the gold standard, abolish just about the entire federal government, and relinquish our role as a global superpower.

    Some people agree with that. I vehemently do not – neither do the vast majority of Americans, which generally causes the libertarians to run screaming about the tyranny of democracy. It’s all very circular, very radical, very silly, and ignores literally 200 years’ worth of history, law, and jurisprudence.

    But because they have liberty, they can say whatever they want.

    I’m sorry you thought it necessary to go all class warfare in your comment, but hopefully it was cathartic for you. I work/ed hard to get where I am and my family made many sacrifices, too. To suggest otherwise is as “offensive” as you apparently found my earlier comments.

    So basically, we’re having a “different conversation” because you’ve completely missed my point. Credible economists who have degrees and international recognition say that deficit spending is exactly what you do in a recession such as this. The problem was deficit spending during the years in which the economy was growing. That’s when the government can scale back and let the market do its thing. When the market plummets and fails, the government can step in again and spend to stimulate things.

    Those are the people I listen to. Not screamers on CNBC or other cable networks. Not Ron Paul. Not fringe political groups or figures. Mainstream economists.

  44. Jim Ostrowski April 22, 2009 at 9:42 am #

    I didn’t just pop up one day and advocate drastic change.

    Buffalo was once a world class city that has now been in a state of decline for 50 years. It was 45 years when I started Free Buffalo. In fact, when I was a teenager, it was obvious to me that there was a greedy, self-serving and corrupt political machine that was squeezing the life of the city. I fought them hard then as a reform liberal Democrat until I realized that political machines are the necessary consequence of big government. The beast cannot be reformed!

    I came to libertarianism basically because I was looking for an answer to the problems of Buffalo. The basic political model in Buffalo has been “progressive” liberalism from the Progressive Era onward. Conservatism comes along as a purported foe of liberalism but has been an utter failure insofar as making government smaller–no conservative regime ever has.

    Liberalism itself was supposed to be a better alternative to the quasi-libertarianism of earlier times. Yet, its era, 1917 to the present has been marked by an endless series of crises, foreign and domestic starting with World War I.

    The interesting thing is that the disease of big government has now spread nationally (as I more or less predicted in my book). So, we in Buffalo have a chance to join forces with those around the country that have caught our disease.

    Linking up nationally is our only real chance which I why I did not and do not favor rallies geared to state issues primarily.

    Anyway, I posit libertarianism as the solution to 50 straight years of decline.

    I haven’t heard any alternative theory that has not already been tried and failed either here or elsewhere.

  45. Steven April 22, 2009 at 12:24 pm #

    Pundit – it was not my intention to go class warfare on you, I was simply responding to your comment that it didn’t matter to you about the surcharges. I think its fair to reply that it does indeed matter to some of us and give the reason why.

    Having never been to your home the comment I made wasn’t directed at you personally. You could live in a shack in the lake for all I know. You characterized people that go to the tea parties as “ignorant middle class” etc etc I think its fair in turn for me to characterize the folks that dismiss the burden of all these new taxes and surcharges as limousine liberals. They are the only ones that don’t care because they can afford it.

    Middle class in America has become a ridiculously broad term. If your not on Food stamps now your considered middle class it seems.

    We could be having different conversations because you (and only you) declared this the “libertarian tea party” I looked at the banners you have on your web page and no where on them is the word “libertarian”. I looked at the flyers that were distributed and none of them said “Libertarian”. I was there and listened to the speakers and none of them said the word “Libertarian” when speaking as far as I can recall. From actually being there and not trying to guess from a distance I can safely say “Libertarians” were in the minority of the crowd. Maybe 15 or 20 out of a crowd of over 200?? Not sure maybe Jim Ostrowski can give a more exact number.

    It wasn’t a Libertarian Tea Party it was just a Tea Party full of concerned citizens. Perhaps if you would have been there you would know what was going and who was attending. This is the crux of why your post bothered me so much. You made and continue to make broad generalizations about the “type” of people that attended. You weren’t there so basically your just making this up as you go along. Having actually been there and having actually talked to people there that bothers me. There were at least 10 people from speakup at the rally none of whom except Jim considers themselves a Libertarian or prescribes to Libertarian Ideology.

    I will say this though, when they (libertarians) advocate fiscal and personal responsibility I gladly stand by their side just as I stood by the side of liberals against Bush’s social tyranny. I am not connected at the hip to a Donkey or Elephant. I don’t walk lock step with any party or group on every issue. I think a great deal of the people that attended are like me. I realize that goes against the grain, free thinking it seems is out of favor.

    I sincerely apologies if you feel I have taken this off topic. This is your play ground after all.

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