The Murderer

1 Jun

Via Andrew Sullivan, I am led to the conservative blog “Little Green Footballs“, which has posted information concerning the suspect who is alleged to have shot abortion provider Dr. George Tiller.

A couple of times I’ve predicted that we’ll see a return to the militia movement we had to put up with during the Clinton Administration. They’ll be even more energized now because we have a brown-skinned President. Scott Roeder, the suspect, posted to several Operation Rescue-related sites. But this is more disturbing:

July 7, Kansas: Scott Roeder is sentenced to sixteen months in state prison for parole violations following a 1996 conviction for having bomb components in his car trunk. Roeder, a sovereign citizen and tax protester, violated his parole by not filing tax returns or providing his social security number to his employer…

…The sovereign citizen movement is a network of American litigants who claim to be “sovereign citizens”; that is, people who claim to have certain rights under English common law and to be unaccountable to the federal government. The litigants advance this concept in opposition to “federal citizens” who, they believe, have unknowingly forfeited their rights by accepting some aspect of federal law.

This “sovereign citizen” concept originated in the Posse Comitatus movement as a teaching of Christian Identity minister William P. Gale. It has gone on to influence the tax protester movement, the Christian Patriot movement and the Redemption movement. Gale identified the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution as the act that converted sovereign citizens into federal citizens, but other commentators have identified other acts, including the Uniform Commercial Code,[2] the Emergency Banking Act,[2] the Zone Improvement Plan and the supposed suppression of the Titles of Nobility Amendment.

99.9% of what I’ve read on the right about this murder opposes it, but also gets in a shot about how bad Tiller was to perform procedures that his patients asked him to perform. The concern, however, is mostly about how poorly this will reflect on the entire anti-abortion movement in particular, and conservatives in general. The lunatic fringe at the Free Republic, (sorry, not linking), for the most part, cheered the murder of Dr. Tiller, and this is what Operation Rescue’s Randall Terry had to say:

“George Tiller was a mass-murderer. We grieve for him that he did not have time to properly prepare his soul to face God. I am more concerned that the Obama Administration will use Tiller’s killing to intimidate pro-lifers into surrendering our most effective rhetoric and actions. Abortion is still murder. And we still must call abortion by its proper name; murder.

Those men and women who slaughter the unborn are murderers according to the Law of God. We must continue to expose them in our communities and peacefully protest them at their offices and homes, and yes, even their churches.”

Ayman al-Zawahiri couldn’t have said it better. Perhaps Dick Cheney will come on the news and explain in graphic detail how we need to waterboard Mr. Roeder to find out his connection to some radical anti-abortion group. Isn’t that how it works nowadays when we’re dealing with terrorism?

39 Responses to “The Murderer”

  1. Russell June 1, 2009 at 7:20 am #

    It’s amazing how sick some people are and how some won’t miss the opportunity, even during a horrific tragedy, to press their political agenda. Call it what it was, a horrendous act by an ignorant and misguided individual. There is no need for Randall Terry to inject any of the politics on abortion into his statement and there is far less need for BP to throw in a political statement on waterboarding. I think the last paragraph of this post is just as disgusting as the two from Randall Terry, if not worse.

  2. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 7:37 am #

    @ Russell The Torture Apologist – ” think the last paragraph of this post is just as disgusting as the two from Randall Terry, if not worse”.

    Well, bully for you. Can you answer why Operation Rescue is not being investigated as a terror cell immediately after one of its active members commits a brazen act of terrorism against an American citizen?

    Or do we have a lesser categorization in the GWOT when the terrorist looks like Larry the Cable Guy?

  3. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 8:12 am #

    @ Humanist

    Was he an “active member of Operation Rescue” ?

    Did you come to that conclusion because as BP posted, he “posted to several Operation Rescue-related sites” ?

    If some poster here was arrested for some heinous crime – would that in some way implicate BP ?

    I’m no big suppoerter of Operation Rescue and won’t get in to my personal feelings on abortion, but your attempt at making this about race (BP too for his little “brown-skinned President” line) pisses me off.

  4. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 8:17 am #

    @Russell- Sort of like using the tragedy of 9/11 to push through a political agenda like the Patriot Act?

  5. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 8:39 am #

    @ Haterade – my “attempt to make this about race” pisses you off? Well….I’m all broken up over that.

    I’m merely pointing out that the “GWOT” blowhards who are so quick to imagine Muslim terror cells in every neighborhood will now be quick to point out the “single gunman” theory of the anti-abortion “fringe”. And take pains to stress that we shouldn’t be jumping to conclusions and let the judicial process take its due course…all because the terrorist in our midst doesn’t look like Khalid Sheikh Muhammed.

  6. Russell June 1, 2009 at 9:32 am #

    Congratulations, BP, you just equated your own actions with those you’ve been railing against for years. You must be so proud of yourself, and self-hating at the same time.

    Humanist, if there is a real link between the murderer and Operation Rescue, you should ask that question to President Obama and his Justice Department, not me.

    I think FBI investigations, details from the 9/11 Commission, subsequent arrests, intelligence findings, thrawted attacks and piles of other evidence show the justifications for some of the actions taken by our government both domestically and internationally following 9/11. Not all, but some at least. When that kind of evidence piles up against this murderer, Operation Rescue and other groups on the fringe, then perhaps the public and our government will think and act similarly. Until then, there is no sense making comparisons. The two have nothing in common, unless you can present some evidence to the contrary.

  7. LC Scotty June 1, 2009 at 10:11 am #

    Since when did Ayman al-Zawahiri ever call for anything to be protested peacefully?

    This is an act of terrorism, it needs to be investigated as such.

  8. Mike In WNY June 1, 2009 at 10:22 am #

    I don’t buy the terrorism argument, for this case or 9/11. Investigate the crimes and hold the people responsible. The terrorism label is redundant, inflammatory and too easily abused to strip people of rights and a fair trial. If 9/11 had been handled as a crime, we would probably not be facing a collapsing economy (at least not this soon) and thousands of American soldiers would not have died.

  9. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 10:24 am #

    @Russell- Evidence to the contrary….

    http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/13/warrantless-wiretapping-in-place-before-911/

  10. Russell June 1, 2009 at 10:34 am #

    Jon, how is that evidence to the contrary? It says W tried enacting some of those policies before 9/11. It has absolutely nothing to do with showing that this murderer acted with Operation Rescue or any other fringe group. What was your point supposed to be?

    Mike, the terrorism label is not redundant. It’s a different situation if something is done solely to an individual or if it’s done to send a message of fear to a larger group. I believe it’s clear that this was an act of terror. I just don’t believe it was perpetrated by a group or a movement. I think it was the act of an individual.

  11. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 10:42 am #

    It’s evidence contrary to your belief that the actions of our government following 9/11 were justified and not politically motivated.

    But if you want evidence anti-abortion groups encourage this kind of bullshit,

    http://www.armyofgod.com/POClist.html

    There is a very real, very crazy group of Christo-facists in this country and they should be held just as accountable for their religious terrorism as Bin Laden.

  12. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 10:51 am #

    Ok, third time I’m trying to post this and I think it’s getting blocked because it’s most definitely a link to a hate site and I’m betting the spam filter is catching that but….

    1. My original link is evidence to the contrary that our government didn’t act to advance it’s political agenda following 9/11.

    2. Groups like this (and I’m linking reddit which links to the site I’ve been trying to link) are Christo-fascists and should be prosecuted with the same vigor as Bin Laden.

    http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/8opjc/well_i_guess_the_admin_of_this_fucked_up_website/

  13. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    @ Humanist

    Are you really the whiny little thing you come off as ?

    Forgive me for not thinking that while henious, the murder of an abortion providing doctor hardly equates to the murder of 3000 + innocent Americans.

    It was also convenient that you dismissed the bulk of my questions, so I’ll ask you again : Was the murderer an [B]”active member”[B] of operation rescue as you posted ?

  14. hank June 1, 2009 at 11:30 am #

    Abortionists are legally sanctioned murderers, thanks to the Supreme Court.

    Murdering an abortionist is illegal, and always will be, as it should.

    There are many anti-abortion whack-a-doos who embrace no other planks of Conservatism, so don’t shackle the right with these freaks. Code Pinkers don’t necessarily embrace all aspects of liberalism.

    Violence (that Abortionists practice on the living yet unborn) begets violence(the bombings, and killing of doctors), but that doesn’t make either right or just.

    Saying that the militia movement will increase because we have a “brown skinned President” is race baiting, and if there are any figures to support this, BP didn’t enlighten us, which is somewhat hypocritical.

    Don’t forget, sometimes you get what you ask for.

  15. hank June 1, 2009 at 11:32 am #

    @ Haterade—The answer to your question is YES.

    He should go to a clinic and ask to assist in the performance of a late term abortion. He’d probably either puke his guts out, or faint away.

    Those who are so “Pro Choice” should be sitting at the business end of the table pulling out the body parts a few hours a week. Minds would be changed.

  16. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 11:41 am #

    @ Haterade – I don’t know…are you the touchy moron you come off as?

    “Forgive me for not thinking that while henious(sic), the murder of an abortion providing doctor hardly equates to the murder of 3000 + innocent Americans.

    Cheers…I’m sure Dr. Tiller’s family, friends and patients and the community he served are in total agreement with you. 9/11!! 9/11!!

    “Was the murderer an “active member” of operation rescue as you posted ?”

    Well, I don’t know if this psychopath’s membership card was renewed, but when he was arrested, he had a note with Operation Rescue’s phone number on it, as reported by KMBC in Kansas City. Purely coincidental, I’m sure.

    I say he was an active member of Operation Rescue because he took action to eliminate a man OR has demonized, targeted, harassed and intimidated for three decades. This maniac achieved their aim, even though now they have the good sense, PR-wise, not to condone it.

  17. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 11:48 am #

    @Hank- Code Pink is in no way, shape, or form the liberal equivalent of the anti-abortion fridge. They don’t drop bodies or hurt anyone. To make that analogy is retarded.

  18. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 11:49 am #

    Yeah … I guess I’m as big a touchy moron as you are a whiny bitch.

    Quite often you spout off without all the facts, and resort to name calling most of the time when people don’t agree with you. I would be more than happy to trade insults with you, but I’m sure nobody else wants to read that.

  19. Russell June 1, 2009 at 11:51 am #

    Jon, none of that is relevant to what I asked, but keep trying to cloud the subject and bring in other unrelated issues. I don’t know why that’s the game so many of you want to play with this murder. Clearly there is no evidence that links the actions of this murderer to Operation Rescue or any other group. Political statements on 9/11 and our government’s reaction or descriptions of fringe groups are completely irrelevant.

  20. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 11:57 am #

    @ Humanist

    I’m sure Dr. Tiller’s family, friends, patients etc, aren’t happy. The loved ones of murder victims rarely are, but to equate this with 9/11 is wrong. What MikeinWNY said about investigating crimes and avoiding the terrorism “label” was right on target …. but then you wouldn’t be able to voice your phony outrage.

  21. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 12:04 pm #

    @ Haterade – I resort to name calling? Who started it?

  22. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 12:11 pm #

    In this thread or in general ? In this thread you started out by calling Russell “the torture apologist”. Now unless this is some little pet name, I’d have to say it was YOU. I know it wasn’t directed at me, but it was name-calling nonetheless and shows your general demeanor regarding people you don’t agree with.

    While I don’t post here nearly as much as you do, this isn’t my first day here. I have seen your act on numerous occasions, so let’s not play innocent.

  23. Terry June 1, 2009 at 1:53 pm #

    Curious..is the guy who just opened up at the recruiting center in Little Rock a terrorist or doesn’t he meet the definition??????

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090601/ap_on_re_us/us_recruiters_shot

  24. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 2:12 pm #

    @ Haterade – define irony: being called out for being mean and discourteous by someone who’s screenname is “Haterade”

    I’m sorry you took such offense to my name for Russell the Torture Apologist….you must have missed the numerous comment threads where he defends the Bush Administration’s use of torture….therefore, his name is Russell The Torture Apologist. He hasn’t objected so he must agree.

    In any case, I didn’t call you a name until you started in with me….mess with the bull, etc. If you don’t like being called names, man up or go over to Ostrowski’s circle-jerk of a blog.

  25. Russell June 1, 2009 at 2:41 pm #

    Humanist, my objections to the way the term “torture” has been used and misrepresented on here are all over this site. Your pettiness and sophomoric behaviour is usually not worth engaging, but do not mistake that for acceptance.

    Of course, you always have a justification for the way you act. As Haterade pointed out, your general demeanor regarding people you don’t agree with speaks volumes about yourself and the type of person you are.

    And don’t humor yourself. You’re no bull, but you often spew plenty of it.

  26. Jon Splett June 1, 2009 at 2:56 pm #

    @Terry- Absolutely an act of terrorism and I’m the biggest anti-military person you’ll ever meet. Shooting up a recruiting station is just as hypocritical as calling yourself pro-life and shooting a doctor. If he shot recruiters to keep other people from enlisting, he’s a terrorist and should get treated as one.

  27. The Humanist June 1, 2009 at 4:39 pm #

    @ Russell the Torture Apologist – like I said, apologizing for torture.

    It certainly is rich to be accused of petty, sophmoric behavior by someone who posted all those “Jonny” Powers comments. I couldn’t care less what you think of me personally…people who defend torture are beneath my contempt.

  28. Peter Farrell June 1, 2009 at 8:11 pm #

    Interesting link that goes down the avenue Pundit brought up about a Democratic admininstration increasing the extremism from the right.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cristina-page/the-murder-of-dr-tiller-a_b_209562.html

    “During the entire Bush administration, from 2000-2008 there were no murders.

    During the Clinton era, between 1994-2000 there were 6 abortion providers and clinic staff murdered, and 17 attempted murders of abortion providers. There were 12 bombings or arsons during the Clinton years.

    During the Bush administration, not only were there no murders, there were no attempted murders. There was one clinic bombing during the Bush years.”

    Hmmmm……

  29. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 10:46 pm #

    @Humanist

    Apparently you don’t know what Haterade is … google the term.

    I didn’t “call you out for being mean and discourteous”, and if that’s the way you took it, let me clarify – I said you resort to name calling when someone has an opposite viewpoint. Mean ? Hardly. I would define it as more “bitchy” than “mean”.

    Anyway, I have no problem throwing insults around, however I have learned that when you do it from the safety of your keyboard it really just makes you look like a juvenile coward. 9.9 times out of 10 those with the biggest e-muscles would not begin to say such things in ‘real life’. I am certain that you are not in the .1%.

    “You mess with the bull … “??? In your case the axiom should end “you get the schitt”, because that’s what you are full of.

  30. Larry Castellani June 1, 2009 at 11:07 pm #

    @Haterade: re post #3, I think Operation Rescue qualifies to be investigated as a terrorist cell. There is a big difference between someone posting to BP’s site and then commiting a crime and someone posting to OR’s site and then commiting a murder possibly incited by the site whose purpose is to end abortion one way or another. BP is commited to discourse whereas OR is commited to inciting “actions” against abortion doctors and clinics.

  31. Haterade June 1, 2009 at 11:28 pm #

    @ Larry

    The Humanist said that the murderer was an “active member” of operation rescue because of some phone number allegedly found in his possession.I was just questioning that statement.

    Does operation rescue qualify for investigation as a terrorist cell ? I don’t know. Did they not condemn this act ?

  32. The Humanist June 2, 2009 at 12:41 am #

    @ Haterade – the drink of choice for haters….yes, I am down with the modern patois

    Operation Rescue certainly deserves a fair share of scrutiny from the the criminal investigators in Kansas, if not some interest from the Justice Department. Their PR-minded condemnation today pales in comparison to their multi-decade campaign of harassment, intimidation, threats and obstruction while the good doctor was still alive and in practice.

    Via KMBC in Kansas City, we learn that Roeder had the number of Operation Rescue’s senior policy adviser Cheryl Sullenger in his car. That would be the Cheryl Sullenger who did a two-year stint in the joint for conspiring to bomb a California abortion clinic in 1988. What is an anti-abortion maniac convicted of criminal use of explosives doing with the phone number for another convicted clinic bomber? Pure coincidence, right?

    I could give a shit about jumping to conclusions and conspiracy-thinking. The chickens have come home to roost for Operation Rescue and all the nutjob looney tunes anti-life outfits that spur maniacs to terrorize physicians, clinic workers, patients and the community with acts of, yes, terrorism. I pray to almighty Jeebus that Operation Rescue gets implicated.

    Oh yeah…the founder of Operation Rescue, Randall Terry, addressed the National Press Club today and had the following to share:

    “The point that must be emphasized over, and over, and over again: pro-life leaders and the pro-life movement are not responsible for George Tiller’s death. George Tiller was a mass-murderer and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed”

    Now, this is me being my typical self, as you say, and saying that to call Randall Terry a dickless motherfucker is an insult to dickless motherfuckers everywhere.

    Haha…his Wikipedia page has been updated

  33. Ward June 2, 2009 at 6:51 am #

    Well OK then.
    Employing the logic and reasoning of the posters on this thread–and at the risk of being accused of “cribbing” from Humanist, here goes:

    Yesterday a Muslim fundamentalist, a card-carrying member of the Peace Movement, possibly a colleague of The Humanist, murdered a military recruiter and wounded another in Little Rock, Arkansas. His name is Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad–changed from Carlos Bledsoe when he converted to Islam.

    How do we know he is a card-carrying member of the Peace Movement? Simple–he murdered a soldier. It is quite possible that he was motivated by websites such as unitedforpeace.org, paxchristiusa.org, or BuffaloPundit.com. How do we know that? Easy–he told police he hates the military.

    We fully expect that denials will be forthcoming from peace advocates, to the effect that, “The point that must be emphasized over, and over, and over again: peace leaders and the peace movement are not responsible for William Long’s death. William Long was a mass-murderer and, horrifically, he reaped what he sowed.”

    More to come as the story develops. In the meantime, “The chickens have come home to roost for ANSWER and all the nutjob looney tunes anti-soldier outfits that spur maniacs to terrorize army recruiters, recruits and the community with acts of, yes, terrorism. I pray to almighty Damballa that ACORN gets implicated.”

  34. Russell June 2, 2009 at 7:46 am #

    Humanist, I’m beneath your contempt yet you never miss an opportunity to express your contempt for me, going so far as to make up a name for me and using everytime I post something. I always love when people have to post to tell me how little my opinion matters to them or how beneath them I am to not even merit engaging, yet they respond to everything I say, even innocuous stuff.

    And really, calling someone by the diminutive form of their names is equivalent to what you’re doing? Really? Well, I had conversations with Jonny on here and he never objected to that. Besides, Jonny allowed himself to be painted as young, immature and inexperienced. It’s what cost him the election. Also, no one seemed to have a problem with the names I used for all the other characters involved in that election. In fact, some found them quite entertaining. I can’t believe how sensitive and thin skinned so many people on here were and still are about Jonny. He moved on long ago, perhaps some of you can finally get over it.

    Ward, I know your example is citing a recent terrorist event, but let’s not also forget about all the eco-terrorism that has taken place in recent years. Surely Al Gore should have to answer for much of that, or at least deserve some scrutiny from the Department of Justice.

  35. The Humanist June 2, 2009 at 10:41 am #

    @ Ward – in your fever-dream of a post, you forgot to include The Black Muslim/Socialist/Facist President B. Hussein Obama welcoming William Ayers to the Oval Office to toast another strike at the US military complex. And Judge Sotomayor announcing at a press conference that she thanks Hispanic Jesus the dead recruiter was white because a wise Latino would be much better in the position.

  36. Ward June 2, 2009 at 11:42 am #

    humanist — you said it all, not me.

    Judging that your nom-de-blog refers to your own peculiar theology, as opposed to any incidental exposure on your part to The Humanities, I guess I should explain that I was employing a literary device used with some success by Jonathan Swift. If you read your own 12:41 post closely, then mine following, you may notice some vague similarity in language, contents and tone.

  37. The Humanist June 2, 2009 at 1:15 pm #

    @ Ward – the only thing you have in common with Swift is that you both think it’s a grand idea for the poor to sell their children as food to the well-to-do. Except Swift was kidding.

    Your post hardly qualifies as satire, as satire usually requires a modicum of wit. And some semblance of reality.

  38. Ward June 2, 2009 at 3:08 pm #

    Ah, and of course the card-carrying Operation Rescuer is solidly grounded in fact, eh?

    Congrats on being able to find the Wiki entry for “A modest proposal.” Too bad you could not discern that I too was kidding. Looks like it’s another go-around for you in the James Williams Remedial Reading program.

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