Hatred is Hatred. Violence is Violence. Terrorism is Terrorism.

11 Jun

This morning CBS interviewed the young son of the security guard who was shot yesterday by a lunatic Nazi at the Holocaust Museum, of all places. The little boy was so sweet, wearing glasses that were a bit too big for him, and he was about 7 or 8 years old – a bit young to understand the implications of all of this, but old enough to know something horrible had happened to his daddy. My oldest daughter is the same age.

What von Brunn did was senseless, tragic, and fed by years of hatred. Frankly, what happened shouldn’t have come as any surprise, having read a lot of what this idiot wrote. But seeing that little boy, whose father died yesterday for no reason whatsoever, filled me with rage.

Even if you believe, as von Brunn did, that the Jews were in a conspiracy with the Blacks to keep the white man down – a frankly insane, paranoiac belief to have – what would possess you to bring a rifle to a museum and start shooting random people? This guy was no stranger to the Nazi movement. He was an active, inflammatory spokesman for anti-Semitic causes and fringe “the Fed was set up by the Rothschilds to control world banking for the Jews” ideology. He had once gone to jail for 6 years after an aborted attempt to kidnap Fed members, including Paul Volcker, back in the 80s. Online, he agitates against Jews and Blacks and calls on “Aryans” to take violent action.

If the “only thing we have to fear is young brown men with elaborate names written in squiggles” crowd is serious about wanting to detain people indefinitely, perpetually and in perpetuity without charge, then I suggest we add people like von Brunn to that list. Why isn’t he and his ilk at Guantanamo? They’re as ideologically dangerous and prone to violence as any Qaeda member.

Either that or a “Rockefeller Law” type penal code that puts terrorists who commit, conspire to commit, or incite violence like this away for life without parole. In which case this madman could have continued to spout his BS behind a few feet of concrete and bars.

I’m not advocating for this – I’m just wondering why those who do aren’t treating equal things equally.

There’s another Timothy McVeigh out there right now. He listens to fringe right-wing shit on the internet. He probably watches Glenn Beck, and listens to Limbaugh. He talks to his co-workers about typical conservative talking points, but occasionally freaks out his more mainstream conservative buddies with a slip of the tongue revealing his anti-Semitism or racial animus. They brush it off, figuring he’s just a bit whacked. He attends gun shows and has amassed a veritable arsenal that he tends to like a pet. He owns copies of insane books like the Turner Diaries and figures it’s a handbook for direct citizen action. The current economic crisis may have affected him somehow – lost job, lost house, lost wife – it has only made him more desperate. Someone is to blame, and in his sick mind it’s the Federal Government, international Jewry, the Illuminati, the Council on Foreign Relations, the UN, and other easy targets. He already attends tea parties, but was disappointed they don’t advocate taking up arms. He posts to all sorts of bulletin boards, including Stormfront, Free Republic, Beck’s 9-12 project, and says some whacked out things that range from using direct to indirect language to advocate for immediate violent action.

These people are out there – this guy is out there – and he hates you and everything you stand for. These people are as dangerous as any Qaeda terrorist, even though they didn’t train in Waziristan and don’t make people uncomfortable on that short domestic hop from Baltimore to Orlando.

Why are these serious threats being treated differently?

And when imbeciles like Glenn Beck incites his mouth-breathing viewers to go to war against the US Government, will he be held accountable when someone bombs a federal building? When Rush Limbaugh incites further hatred by questioning Barack Obama’s place of birth and highlighting his race, will he apologize for doing so when some tragedy happens? No. They’ll both wrap themselves around the 1st Amendment rights guaranteed them by a government they hate.

69 Responses to “Hatred is Hatred. Violence is Violence. Terrorism is Terrorism.”

  1. Ward June 11, 2009 at 6:48 am #

    I wonder what George Soros thinks of all this. Oh, never mind–just scroll up and read again.

    At least Pundit stopped twittering that this was a continuation of the Tiller shooting–once someone linked him to von Brunn’s website.

  2. Mike Walsh June 11, 2009 at 10:44 am #

    That’s a stupid argument against Beck and Limbaugh(and for the record I’m not a fan of either). What about lookalike crimes that are committed after being sensationally reported in the media? That’s not right or left.

  3. al l June 11, 2009 at 10:46 am #

    the next guy might even end his pledge with: “I pledge to resist that tyranny by peaceful means if at all possible.”

    “if at all possible”? a carte blanche for violence, methinks.

  4. Ike June 11, 2009 at 3:50 pm #

    You’re an attorney for christsake, you should know the differences between conspiracy, attempt, and what free speech entails

    Until the crazy nazi does something illegal, then he’s just a guy exercising his first amendment rights. We can’t put them in Gitmo because they’ve done nothing….same reason we can’t just go around locking up people we think might be in street gangs.

    your real problem is that you think the first amendment shouldn’t protect those with outrageous, far-right ideas…maybe you feel that it also shouldn’t protect those with outrageous far-left ideas, but we’ll probably never know because you’re too busy titling at limbaugh and beck windmills.

  5. Merr June 11, 2009 at 4:14 pm #

    Let’s see, this guy was anti-Jew, anti-Christian, anti-neocon, anti-black, thought 9/11 was a gov’t conspiracy, didn’t like Bush or McCain, may have been targeting the Weekly Standard and Fox News, etc.

    Yup, let’s blame on Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh…

  6. Becky June 11, 2009 at 4:30 pm #

    “Why are these serious threats being treated differently?”

    Everyone seems to be willfully missing this point.

  7. Buffalopundit June 11, 2009 at 5:33 pm #

    I’d like to congratulate you all for completely missing the point. Except for Becky. Every comment above Becky’s is fucking stupid as shit and the author should be ashamed of it.

  8. Mike In WNY June 11, 2009 at 6:30 pm #

    How are these threats being treated differently? Should the constitution be suspended when someone voices an opinion you don’t agree with? Should a person be stripped of their “rights” in the interest of protecting questionable government practices?

    Did this guy break laws that were ignored?

  9. kris June 11, 2009 at 7:14 pm #

    Bur Glenn Beck cries.

    He CRIES!!!

  10. kris June 11, 2009 at 7:15 pm #

    *But

  11. Mike Walsh June 11, 2009 at 11:20 pm #

    ” Every comment above Becky’s is fucking stupid as shit and the author should be ashamed of it.”

    No. You’re “fucking stupid” because just about everything you’ve written and commented upon in the the last six months is devoid of logic and rational thought and full of emotion and bias.

    You’re also full of shit about supposedly being a republican in your younger days. If you really were and have now done a complete 180, then you really are “fucking stupid” to trust and buy any of this bullshit from either party and the mass media circus that goes along with it.

  12. Adam K. June 12, 2009 at 1:25 am #

    Mike Walsh-

    I have to question a lot of things about someone who would continue to read something they believe is “devoid of logic and rational thought and full of emotion and bias” for 6 MONTHS.

    And read BPs old Wes Clark blog – he was clearly a recovering republican (in fact, he hadn’t finished recovering yet).

  13. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 6:45 am #

    You are pretty testy as of late BP. A whole lot of “it’s my site, leave if you don’t like it”. WTF is up with that ? Should everyone who doesn’t agree with you 100% of the time stop posting here ? That would make for one un-interesting left-wing love-fest.

    Take a midol and calm the fuck down.

  14. Russell June 12, 2009 at 9:25 am #

    BP, I understand your outrage, but it is a little misguided and overblown. You constantly look for reasons to condemn the right and anyone adhering to that philosophy anytime some lunatic goes off. However, no one is responding in kind when some lunatic on the left goes off. Did you cry any tears for the children of the recruiters in Arkansas that were recently gunned down? I don’t remember any raving posts against the left wing when that happened. How about the children and victims of eco-terror in our country? Where was your outrage for them?

    Yes, violence is violence, hatred is hatred and terrorism is terrorism. These activities are not uniquely right-wing. If you’re genuinely concerned with stamping out hatred and terror in our country, don’t make it into a politically biased cause against all things you don’t agree with. It makes you sound more like these people than you’d probably like.

    As an attorney, you should know the difference between the people locked up in Gitmo and this terrorist. For a couple points, he’s a US citizen; he was not actively engaged in violent activities to kill US citizens or attack the US government/interst prior to this event (other than the instance he was imprisoned for that you cited). I’m sure you could come up with plenty more if you tried.

  15. Mike Walsh June 12, 2009 at 9:34 am #

    ONE person committed this outrageous crime. You’re wringing your hands and fishing around to find accomplices and suggesting tampering with first amendment rights. That’s emotional and irrational.

  16. Jon Splett June 12, 2009 at 12:21 pm #

    @Haterade

    What comment section do you read that Alan’s site would become a left wing love fest? The regular right wingers in the comments outnumber the left by a large margin lately.

  17. Mike In WNY June 12, 2009 at 12:26 pm #

    Godwin’s law is working here.

  18. The Humanist June 12, 2009 at 12:45 pm #

    Pundit isn’t the one turning this tragedy into a political issue….it’s the right wing (and its enablers on this comment thread) spinning like mad to find some equivalence on the Left for the horrors we’ve seen committed by right-wing extremists in the past few weeks.

    There are legitimate questions with regard to the two of the recent terrorist episodes:

    1) Why wasn’t more protection given to Dr. Tiller’s clinic, particularly after the assassin was caught criminally trespassing and vandalizing the clinic just recently?
    2) How was Dr. Tiller’s assassin able to find out where Dr. Tiller attended Sunday services?
    3) How was a racist extremist terrorist who had already served time for an armed assault on a Federal building able to obtain a .22 caliber rifle?
    4) Why wasn’t the security guard stationed at one of the most sensitive locations in the nation’s capital outfitted with a bulletproof vest?

    Oh yeah, I can answer that last one….the guard’s union asked for bulletproof vests in its most recent round of negotiations two years ago with Wackenhut Services, but the corporation dragged its feet on providing them. Like any good corporation, they saved a few nickels, even if it meant that Stephen Johns’ son was robbed of his father.

    But me raising that point and also pointing out that the DHS report on right wing extremism in April was never wrong and is sadly being vindicated is just me scoring cheap political points.

    I’m not the one running frantically away from the news screamining “Lone nut! No connection! Leftists are terrorists too!”

  19. Ward June 12, 2009 at 1:10 pm #

    Humanist — not to pick a fight with you, only a bone.

    A “tragedy” is when a tree limb falls on a car, killing its driver, or an airplane falls from the sky and kills fifty people.

    The shootings to which you refer–as well as those of the Army recruiters in Little Rock–were not tragedies.

    An “outrage” or a “barbaric act” is when someone enters the Holocaust Museum or a Lutheran Church, or even a strip plaza, and shoots another human being in cold blood.

    I’m afraid the blossoming use of “tragedy” (or Napolitano’s risible “man-made disaster”) tends to deflect attention from the inexcusable guilt of the perpetrator–although it does tend to make us feel less “judgmental”, I suppose.

  20. Mike Walsh June 12, 2009 at 1:35 pm #

    “4) Why wasn’t the security guard stationed at one of the most sensitive locations in the nation’s capital outfitted with a bulletproof vest?”

    What would that have done to prevent this? It’s Wackenhut’s fault.?

    You people are always scurrying around after any crime or accident to find someone or something else to blame things on rather than the person responsible. Some evil nut goes on a shooting spree and you have to find some collective blame to go around?

  21. Staff June 12, 2009 at 1:45 pm #

    Why does Mike Walsh hate security guards? Has he or Haterade ever taken a public stance on security guard safety prior to today?

    Also, when will Haterade come out against ass-to-mouth dog pornography. Clearly, his lack of public commentary on this demonstrates his support of this horrible act. He also is noticeably silent on cat juggling. That’s right, Haterade clearly supports ass-to-mouth dog-porn-loving cat jugglers.

  22. Jim Ostrowski June 12, 2009 at 1:51 pm #

    “Ostrowskiites about “sovereign citizenship””

    Please don’t smear me by suggesting I have a connection with that doctrine, whatever it means.

    On the contrary, I’m a critic of the “common law legal movement.”

    As for the Fed, sure, just a counterfeting operation but everyone already knows that, especially those who run it.

  23. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 1:55 pm #

    @Splett

    No way.

    First … BP leans left, and as he is so fond of pointing out – it’s HIS name on the site, so consequently the subject matter is also left- leaning. I can count on one hand the number of “right” posters…. Hank, Ward, Russell and couple others. Can you honestly say that they outnumber the “left” leaning liberal types ? Seriously ?

    @ BP

    No, you need a midol because you are acting quite bitchy lately.

    IMO you cannot equate Natalee Holloway or John & Kate with the Little Rock shootings.

    You don’t “owe” a thread to that subject, but why get in a tizzy when asked why you are so incensed as to wish a slow death on some nutjobs – yet don’t even comment on the other.

    I’ll get started on that river now while I wait for your snide response.

  24. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 2:02 pm #

    @ “Staff” (?)

    I already have come out against ass to mouth dog pornography … cats too. Juggling is okay.

    See, I set the record straight. I didn’t go off on some tantrum about how it’s MY site and I can do what I want without ever addressing the issue head-on.

    Nice try though. BTW, you are clearly a funny guy (?). Apparently you have my email. Maybe we should get together and you can tell me some more funny jokes ? They seem to lose something on the computer.

  25. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:03 pm #

    Even now, Haterade refuses to address the cat juggling dog porn issue. What does he have to hide?

  26. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:04 pm #

    According to news reports, the guard was shot by a shotgun at a range of two feet. A bulletproof vest probably would not have done much to prevent the fatal wounds. But playing that ‘what if’ game could get into all sorts of counter-points. What if the guard did have a vest, would the shooter have known that and targeted visitors instead? Could that have led to more deaths?

    BP, like it or not, what you do not post about also says a lot about you. We can gather from your lack of John & Kate updates that you don’t care too much about that subject. When you rant and rave about a politically motivated killing, but ignore other related tragedies, it also says a lot about you. I don’t think anyone was stating you owed them a post. I think they were just pointing out your perceived hypocrisy and discriminating outrage.

  27. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    Cry me a river.

  28. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:13 pm #

    One again, a whole lot of posts in response to something you ‘don’t really care’ about. It’s especially perplexing when it follows a response to what you yourself stated you do have a problem with.

    Humanist, I wondered the same as points 1 and 2 at the time of Dr. Tiller’s killing. I stated I thought the government failed him. In response to that, I was refered to the government’s study on extremism. I’m not sure how that helped Dr. Tiller, but I guess based on the conversation from that earlier thread, that’s your response.

  29. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:14 pm #

    I already have come out against ass to mouth dog pornography … cats too. Juggling is okay.

    Link? I don’t believe you

  30. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    Hey, if either of you guys want to start your own blogs right here at WNYM, I’ll be happy to hook you up.

    That way, you too can have your audience require you to post about every single angle and development about every story in a newscycle. In fact, why don’t Haterade and Russell team up on a blog…we’ll call it:

    247bloggingabouteveryfuckingthinghappening.wnymedia.net

  31. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:19 pm #

    Who said anything about “every single angle and development about every story in a newscycle”?

  32. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:21 pm #

    Right, clearly it’s better if we make this a semantic issue and not your actual argument about what Pundit does or does not post. That’ll be fun.

  33. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:26 pm #

    Oh, so your ridiculous exageration is just semantics. Wondering why BP values the lives (and deaths) of victims of right-wing terror over the lives (and deaths) of victims of left-wing terror is out of bounds. We’re supposed to understand that BP leans left so it’s okay for him to view victims on the right as less than human.

  34. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:27 pm #

    No, we’re supposed to wonder why it is that you haven’t given us your position on ass-to-mouth dog fucking. Clearly, you keep dodging the issue. Dog fucker.

  35. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:31 pm #

    Also, if you’re upset that Alan doesn’t blog about the things you love most…like hating security guards, left wing face stabbers and dog fucking cat jugglers, feel free to start your own blog. We host Rus Thompson here, so we’re glad to add another member of the vast right wing conspiracy.

  36. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

    That’s nice. First, BP equates the murder of army recruiters to tabloid gossip stories, then you follow that with statements on beastiality. Yep, you guys you really define class. I’m glad WNY Media takes the time to point out when people on the right show a lack of it because you clearly are the experts on that subject.

    It still amazes me what causes your outrage and what doesn’t. Even though I know you guys lean left, I still assumed you were human. I guess I’m learning.

  37. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:36 pm #

    I thought the comments section on blogs were enough to cover that. I didn’t realize that we’re only supposed to comment to praise BP and support all his views. I had no idea opposing opinions could only be expressed on their own isolated sites.

  38. Staff June 12, 2009 at 2:51 pm #

    We ARE all class here at WNYM. Primarily because we don’t support dog fucking like you do.

  39. mike June 12, 2009 at 2:53 pm #

    Russsel is the new mike hudson without the balls.

  40. Russell June 12, 2009 at 2:57 pm #

    When someone asks why you didn’t post about those murders and your response is that you didn’t post about John & Kate–it sure sounds like you equated the two.

    I never called you a monster and I never said any of this was of grave concern to me. It was merely wondering why victims of right-wing murder outrages you but victims of left-wing murder don’t even merit a passing mention. Furthermore, someone else bringing them up is told to go somewhere else. That selective outrage does seem hypocritical. The response that ‘it’s my blog. I can post what I want. I lean left so that’s how I post.’ only furthers that opinion.

    How do you classify the comments that lead to your anger, contempt and rage? I haven’t seen much that elicits mockery and sarcasm. That’d be a bit jovial and create an entirely different tone on here. I mostly just see anger in your responses.

  41. The Humanist June 12, 2009 at 3:11 pm #

    @ Russell The Torture Apologist – “Wondering why BP values the lives (and deaths) of victims of right-wing terror over the lives (and deaths) of victims of left-wing terror is out of bounds. We’re supposed to understand that BP leans left so it’s okay for him to view victims on the right as less than human”

    Any human being with an ounce of compassion values the lives of victims of any form of terrorism. Victims do not have a political side that roots for or mourns more greatly their passing.

    Oh wait…I forgot that the Right Wing in the US spent 8 years fucking the corpses of 3000 dead Americans to prop up a criminal adminsitration, OK wiretapping and torture, invade Afghanistan to kick out the Taliban and then slowly let them back in, invade Iraq for no sensible reason but that they’re brown-skinned and led by a tinpot dictator.

    I also didn’t notice the 30+ year campaign of harassment, intimidation, violence and terrorism against Army recruiting centers by the Left and the soft-pedaling of this disgusting terrorism by Democratic politicians, pundits and party leaders. Oh right….it didn’t exist. While the Little Rock shooting is a tragedy and is reasonably described as an act of terrorism, whining that Pundit isn’t equating it to Dr. Tiller’s assassination or the shooting at the Holocaust Museum is laughable.

    You want more outrage about the Little Rock shooting? Write about it on your blog: iapologizefortorture.blogspot.com

  42. Russell June 12, 2009 at 3:29 pm #

    BP,I did post my outrage concerning the murder of Dr. Tiller, so I don’t know why you’re misrepresenting me. Furthermore, I never said you were not human or suggested that. I just asked why you treated people on the right or victims of left-wing terror less humanly. Again, do not misrepresent the facts.

    The political spectrum is called a spectrum because it is a spectrum. Fascism is not that far from socialism. Although we call them extreme right and extreme left, they are not at opposite ends of a continuum. They are actually near neighbors on a spectrum. That’s why Nazi actually means National Socialist. So, those fascists were socialists. Besides, I did not coin that phrase you used. His motivations were clearly anti-right leading to the perception that he was left-wing.

  43. The Humanist June 12, 2009 at 3:48 pm #

    @ Russell The Torture Apologist – killing Army recruiters is “clearly” a position of the left? I must have misplaced my memo from George Soros adding that to the Official Left-Wing Platform. Calling the Little Rock shooting “left wing terror” is just as stupid and intellectually bankrupt as apologizing for torture….so, there you go.

    Von Brunn the Nazi white supremacist Holocaust museum shooter was no fan of Bush or McCain….does that make him “left-wing”? Oh wait, someone else already made that batshit insane argument.

    “Fascism is not that far from socialism”
    Actually, it’s pretty fucking far from socialism. But when you get most of your understanding of political systems in history from the likes of Jonah Goldberg (author of Liberal Fascism) and crybaby Glenn Beck, it’s not difficult to understand your confusion.

  44. Jon Splett June 12, 2009 at 6:15 pm #

    Explain to me how Muslims shooting people in the Army is in any way, shape or form related to the left wing.

    We’re godless heathens remember? Religious killings aren’t really our deal.

  45. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 8:12 pm #

    Yeah Splett … sure looks to me like there is an abundance of “right wingers” on here ! It’s a liberal dogpile.

  46. Mike Walsh June 12, 2009 at 8:19 pm #

    I don’t know why all you left leaning people have been so emotional, bitter and caustic this year. Your team won and won big. Critics are in the minority right now. A small minority. So, what’s the problem?

  47. Jon Splett June 12, 2009 at 8:35 pm #

    Uh, why don’t you count the amount of liberals to conservative commenters on this thread only buddy.

    We’ve got me, Humanist, Adam K, and Staff (Hi Marc!). if you wanna include Alan as a commenter on his own blog go ahead. The rest is all angry conservative douchebags. And not to bust on anyone else but most of the people you’d classify as hardline liberals are centrist democrats. Of the regulars around here, me and Ethan are about the only ‘hardcore’ leftys.

    Hell, the freepers trolling in the comments here alone outnumber the legitimate, active liberal comments on any given post.

    Trust me. This blog is far from a left wing love fest. You just have no concept of what the left really stands for.

  48. Jon Splett June 12, 2009 at 8:41 pm #

    @Mike Walsh

    Because you right leaning people keep bitching and moaning about your taxes because your cheap fucks. Also, you keep shooting folks this week.

    And my team didn’t win so I’ll remain bitter and critical thank you very much.

  49. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 9:19 pm #

    @ Splett

    Okay … direct me to the thread where the ” The regular right wingers in the comments outnumber the left by a large margin”. I don’t spend nearly as much time here as you do – but I’ve never seen that.

    Is it possible that my concept of “left” just differs from yours ? But I guess yours is the correct one, huh ?

    Honestly … the “conservatives” aren’t the ones who come across as angry here at all , it’s mainly the libe – ooops, I mean centrist Democrats.

  50. Haterade June 12, 2009 at 9:26 pm #

    **”Uh, why don’t you count the amount of liberals to conservative commenters on this thread only buddy.

    We’ve got me, Humanist, Adam K, and Staff (Hi Marc!). if you wanna include Alan as a commenter on his own blog go ahead. The rest is all angry conservative douchebags”**

    Okay , that’s 5. 4 centrist democrats and a hardcore lefty.

    On the other side there is Ward, Russell, Mike Walsh … and I guess you are counting me.

    5 to 4 for the centrist democrats, or should I say whiny liberal bitches ? The alleged conservatives don’t outnumber the alleged centrist democrats, let alone by a “wide margin”.

  51. Ethan June 12, 2009 at 10:24 pm #

    having been namechecked around here once or twice lately, I have to come out of the woodwork only to say that i agree: Jon & I are basically about it for “the left”, as I see it.

    (Though Mr. Geek’s been getting a bit uppity lately, all that Glenn Greenwald’s really getting to him I’m afraid.)

  52. Adam K. June 12, 2009 at 11:18 pm #

    Jon Splett –

    I’m a Liberal? Me? Evangelical-Christian Pro-balanced-budget pro-death-penalty mostly-anti-abortion military-hawkish me?

    hmm.

    You’ve got a strange definition.

    You too Haterade. If I’m not a moderate Democrat, I don’t know who is.

  53. Mike Walsh June 13, 2009 at 12:27 am #

    “Because you right leaning people keep bitching and moaning about your taxes because your cheap fucks. Also, you keep shooting folks this week.”

    I’d bet my ass that you’ve never made a living for yourself.

  54. Jon Splett June 13, 2009 at 2:40 am #

    @Walsh-

    You’d bet wrong.

    Worked full time at shitty restaurant jobs since I was 16 years old and put myself through college (while racking up a healthy debt thanks to a backwards underfunded education system in this country that decided my parents made too much money to give me any despite the fact I wasn’t taking any from them).

    The last 6 months I’ve spent unemployed while at law school is the longest I’ve ever been without a job and it still feels weird. But you know, make assumptions about me all you want.

    And I’d have gladly given up more of my payc heck to the government for some health care. That’s what people like you don’t get. When you make next to nothing, taxes aren’t what kills you, lack of benefits is. Every restaurant I ever worked in offered health care at an insane rate that would have dwarfed what the government took. I’d GLADLY fork over more in taxes to have a doctor guaranteed from the government.

    @Haterade-

    Sorry, as much as you don’t want possession of Ostrowski, Mike in WNY and the rest of the Ron Paul mafia, they’re conservatives through and though.

    @Adam K

    I was basing it off the one comment in this thread. No, based on what you just said, totally not a liberal, although probably more rational than most of you’re brethren based on that comment.

  55. Jim Ostrowski June 13, 2009 at 12:14 pm #

    I’m not a conservative and never was. I voted against Ronald Reagan twice. I am and have been a fierce critic of conservatism for 30 years. People are brainwashed into thinking that you are either left or right, liberal or conservative. That worked in France in 1800 I guess. Can we drop the spectrum already since it isn’t even a spectrum!!!!!!!!!

    It’s based on where people sat in the French Assembly. A little research will not kill anyone. It actually burns off calories which is why I stay so slim at my advanced age.

    In the old days, the left consisted of the libertarians and the socialists, both ranged against the old regime. When libertarians held sway, from 1776 through 1917 in America and comparable stages in Europe, mankind experienced its greatest improvement in the welfare of the average person in its long sad, barbaric history. Socialism/liberalism made the mistake of thinking it could improve human well-being faster by smuggling in the old regime again, the state, this time as “friend of the common man.” It has failed everywhere it has been tried. The US has been in a constant state of crisis since 1917 when the libs took over. The post-libertarian period of course has been marked by endless war and mass murder by governments.

  56. Mike Walsh June 14, 2009 at 12:35 am #

    @ Splett:

    “Worked full time at shitty restaurant jobs since I was 16 years old and put myself through college (while racking up a healthy debt thanks to a backwards underfunded education system in this country that decided my parents made too much money to give me any despite the fact I wasn’t taking any from them).”

    Hmm..state colleges are subsidized by taxpayers to the tune of about 2/3rds of cost. Student loans are subsidized by taxpayers. So, college should be free? As far as shitty restaurant jobs go, I was grateful for and learned something from every one I had.

    “When you make next to nothing, taxes aren’t what kills you, lack of benefits is. Every restaurant I ever worked in offered health care at an insane rate that would have dwarfed what the government took. I’d GLADLY fork over more in taxes to have a doctor guaranteed from the government.”

    Unless your parents are complete assholes and kicked you out of the house you should have been covered by your parents family plan as long as you were a full time student. I don’t know what you consider an insane rate but single coverage I paid for my employees is not that expensive. And..if you were living independently on minimum wage you should qualify for medicaid.

    You have a “something for nothing” attitude, Jon.

  57. Jon Splett June 14, 2009 at 1:15 am #

    My parents coverage dropped me when I turned 23 (I’m 26 now). I made more than minimum wage….after ten years working in the industry if I didn’t, I’d be an idiot. That qualified me for Healthy NY for a while which but that got pulled about 3 months before I moved. I have no idea why. I got a letter saying my coverage was discontinued and I never followed up because my house burnt down and I had bigger shit to deal with and by that point, I knew I was moving and would be losing it anyway. (Interesting side note: I never got sick so I never used the insurance it gave me. Taxpayers still paid for me to be insured. In a single payer system, I wouldn’t have cost anyone a dime and I’d still have been okay in an emergency. THAT is why single payer is the plan we should be pushing for.)

    And you damn well bet college should be free to every citizen in this country. This isn’t 1950. A high school diploma means absolutely nothing. If the Europeans can manage to put their students through college why the fuck can’t we? Slash the military budget in half and every kid in America could finish school without being an indentured servant to the banking industry via student loan debt.

    Dead Iraqi’s won’t save this country. Educating the next generation will.

  58. Mike Walsh June 14, 2009 at 12:56 pm #

    “Slash the military budget in half and every kid in America could finish school without being an indentured servant to the banking industry via student loan debt.”

    That’s true but the education establishment has issues, also, being as tied in to the government as the military and banking industry.

  59. Mike Walsh June 14, 2009 at 1:00 pm #

    “This isn’t 1950. A high school diploma means absolutely nothing.”

    That’s another interesting point you bring up. Why is it that 12 years and a vast amount of resources spent on each student produces something that means absolutely nothing?

  60. Mike In WNY June 14, 2009 at 1:01 pm #

    @Jon Splett

    Because you right leaning people keep bitching and moaning about your taxes because your cheap fucks. Also, you keep shooting folks this week.

    Two statements, both wrong. First, the reason we bitch about taxes is because we are sick of the government squandering money on failed programs in order to get re-elected, curtail freedoms and increase centralized power. We KNOW that private enterprise could easily surpass the quality of government services and save everyone money in the process. If you call that being cheap, then you must support throwing your money away.

    Second, the shooting comment just illustrates your lack of a substantive response.

  61. hank June 15, 2009 at 1:24 pm #

    And you damn well bet college should be free to every citizen in this country.

    Splett–you’re a fucking socialist. And you’re going to waste a JD because you’ll go to work for the ACLU. Moron.

  62. Jon Splett June 15, 2009 at 2:43 pm #

    @Hank- Yea, if I do practice, I probably will work for the ACLU.

    But my goal is to avoid being a lawyer all together and going to work for either NORML or DanceSAFE as a lobbyist. That way I can help pass reforms to piss off rednecks like yourself on a much larger scale.

    And you can even blame the Democrats for it if you want. Someday overturning Joe Biden’s RAVE Act is pretty much what drives me to show up to class every day.

    But hey, we can’t all sell auto parts and leech off our wives for a living now can we?

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