Shock Horror

21 Jul

Read about the utter shock horror socialist failure that is socialized medicine in France when an American needed emergency laser retinal surgery.

22 Responses to “Shock Horror”

  1. Russell July 22, 2009 at 8:32 am #

    Wow, one single anecdote is all we need to revamp 1/6 of our economy and generalize to 300 million cases. Great point, BP. I’m sure there are no anecdotes about failure in the amazing utopia that is the French health care system.

  2. Mike In WNY July 22, 2009 at 8:45 am #

    And what is the real cost of that optical illusion in terms of taxes to the people of France?

    • Alan Bedenko July 22, 2009 at 9:10 am #

      @Mike in WNY – what difference does it make to your pocketbook if you and your employer pay $10k or more to a private health insurer for incomplete, hole-ridden coverage that excludes prior existing conditions or if you pay a bit more in taxes to get superior, comprehensive coverage with no exclusions for priors and no lifetime max? The money goes out, either way you slice it.

  3. The Humanist July 22, 2009 at 10:23 am #

    @ Russell The Torture Apologist – “I’m sure there are no anecdotes about failure in the amazing utopia that is the French health care system

    Red herring, right on cue. No one said the French system is flawless….just that it’s better than ours

  4. Russell July 22, 2009 at 10:47 am #

    Humanist the Self-Righteous Hypocrite, I’m saying this is not proof that it’s better than ours. It’s merely one story, an anecdote. Anecdotal evidence proves nothing. How do you even measure what’s better? My hyperbole was only to match BP’s hyperbole. Once again, though, thanks for hanging on my every word even though I’m not worth your time or responses.

  5. Frieda July 22, 2009 at 11:08 am #

    Bet the French don’t pay their health care execs 125,000,000 a year like the head of United Healt gets.

  6. Frieda July 22, 2009 at 11:34 am #

    Per Capita cost of health care on any given ratings list depends on what is included ‘as health’ care in the study. Therefore the per capita amounts may vary from list to list. However , in most international ratings, the per capita cost of healthcare in France is generally 50% of what it is in the US.

  7. Ray July 22, 2009 at 11:49 am #

    @Mike In WNY
    You said, “what is the real cost of that optical illusion in terms of taxes to the people of France?”

    That is the first thing that hit me when reading the linked article. The author makes no mention of what the real cost of his operation was, Of course he doesn’t know and the thought never enters his mind.
    A giddy American liberal is rapturous over ripping off the French taxpayer

  8. Mike In WNY July 22, 2009 at 6:24 pm #

    @Mike in WNY – what difference does it make to your pocketbook if you and your employer pay $10k or more to a private health insurer for incomplete, hole-ridden coverage that excludes prior existing conditions or if you pay a bit more in taxes to get superior, comprehensive coverage with no exclusions for priors and no lifetime max? The money goes out, either way you slice it.

    The difference is that what you propose in that statement will increase overall health care costs on a procedure by procedure basis and does not address the short-comings we currently encounter. You will say it increases accessibility for everyone, that accessibility will result in higher costs and a decline in quality care.

  9. BenMcD July 22, 2009 at 7:22 pm #

    “And what is the real cost of that optical illusion in terms of taxes to the people of France?”

    Double digit unemployment and the inability to defend your nation.

    • Colin Eager July 22, 2009 at 8:07 pm #

      I’m always amazed that these arguments come down to claims that France (or Sweden or wherever) are shitty places to live. Being rich is great anywhere. Being middle class is comfortable but occasionally stressful anywhere. Being working class or poor sucks everywhere, but it sucks a lot less in places like France.

  10. Mike In WNY July 22, 2009 at 11:20 pm #

    Poor people already qualify for Medicaid, Medicare, Family Health Plus, Healthy NY and God knows how many other programs. If the people on these programs would just take advantage of the preventative care they already can receive, costs would go down. Instead, many wait until it is an emergency or abuse the system to take an ambulance to the emergency room for a case of the sniffles. I’ve seen people on these programs call 911 for an ambulance because they have no other way to get to a pharmacy for their “free” refill. Let Obama eliminate the ridiculous abuses instead of making health care worse for responsible individuals.

    I am all in favor of positive reforms, not another power grab from a sanctimonious ass who wants to run every facet of the economy. “Change you can believe in” – I have yet to see any.

  11. STEEL July 23, 2009 at 10:29 am #

    Mike In WNY

    I don’t qualify for any of those programs and the day I lose my job I have no coverage at all unless I sell my house to pay for it, assuming they will offer it to me. It is so easy for the private insurers to dump the elderly and poor onto the government while taking the profitable sector of the market. Mike, why don’t you advocate for private insurers to cover the elderly and poor?

  12. Mike In WNY July 23, 2009 at 11:28 am #

    @Steel, I advocate reforms that would provide the best possible outcome for everyone. The system you want is premised on the faulty notion that health care grows on trees and has no costs that can’t be ignored by government.

    If you lose your job, you have COBRA. If you need to, sell your house and purchase insurance. I don’t own a house but pay for health insurance, why should I pay for yours too? By that reasoning, I expect that you’ll be buying me a house soon. Part of being human means making the decisions most beneficial for yourself instead of mandated reliance on others.

    • Alan Bedenko July 23, 2009 at 11:50 am #

      Why should my premiums pay your claims?

  13. Mike In WNY July 23, 2009 at 11:56 am #

    Why should my premiums pay your claims?

    You should have the choice whether or not to pay for insurance, not mandated coverage. You have given another reason for insurance being disconnected from employment. It might be more advantageous for you to maintain your own private health care fund rather than paying premiums. Only you can make that decision. Right now your premiums contribute to my health care because the government has deemed it so.

  14. STEEL July 23, 2009 at 2:54 pm #

    Mike in WNY,

    The one basic thing we should guarantee, as the most powerful richest country in the history of the world, is the ability to get life saving medical treatment. We don’t do that now. We are the ONLY industrialized country that does not provide a guaranty of treatment without regard to ability to pay. We are the only industrialized country that allows a corporate board room decide what treatments we can receive.

    And as a society we all pay for other people’s needs and desires. I rarely if ever use highways to get places yet I pay for them so some suburban slob can drive his hummer 50 miles to work everyday.

    COBRA is not health coverage by the way. It is a government mandated right to buy health coverage. COBRA lasts only 6 months after which the insurer can and often does refuse continued coverage. Without the government there would not even be COBRA. But who cares anyway because most unemployed people cannot afford the huge cost of the coverage. If you opt out of COBRA when you are fired you cannot change your mind later on either. You are then no longer covered by the COBRA rule. So Mike. If you are fired you will need to decide between your rent and food or you health coverage. Probably you will opt out of the health coverage in which case good luck getting cancer treatments in the emergency room. But hay at least your treatments won’t be rationed. They will just be nonexistent.

  15. Mike In WNY July 23, 2009 at 3:06 pm #

    The one basic thing we should guarantee, as the most powerful richest country in the history of the world, is the ability to get life saving medical treatment. We don’t do that now.

    That has been mandated by federal law for many years.

    As for the rest of your argument, you are advocating an escalation of the pressures that raise the cost of health care and keep it out of reach. Oh, but it is only out of reach for about 1 out of 10 people, who just happen to be eligible for FREE coverage now.

  16. STEEL July 23, 2009 at 3:38 pm #

    Actually it has not. You can pass that lie on but the day you need health care and it is being rationed by your inability to pay for it you can get back to me. Again, We are the ONLY industrialized nation on earth that does not guaranty its citizens life saving health care.

  17. Mike In WNY July 23, 2009 at 6:03 pm #

    @Steel, I will not resort to your tactic of name calling and labeling you a liar, but you do not know what you are talking about.

    The Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act (42 U.S.C. § 1395dd, EMTALA) is a United States Act of Congress passed in 1986 as part of the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act. It requires hospitals and ambulance services to provide care to anyone needing emergency treatment regardless of citizenship, legal status or ability to pay. There are no reimbursement provisions. As a result of the act, patients needing emergency treatment can be discharged only under their own informed consent or when their condition requires transfer to a hospital better equipped to administer the treatment.

    That law clearly refutes your original statement.

    Steel: The one basic thing we should guarantee, as the most powerful richest country in the history of the world, is the ability to get life saving medical treatment. We don’t do that now.

  18. al l July 23, 2009 at 9:40 pm #

    “emergency care” being the key to that statement.

    if you have a severe cold you cant get treatment until you actually have pneumonia? sounds cost effective and good for the public health. will you die tomorrow if you dont receive a treatment for lupus or hepatitis? probably not. will you eventually and expensively die? good chance. will you take your family’s finances with you? yes. do the working poor or lower middle class folks all qualify for free healthcare? nope.

    instead we have a patchwork system metered out by states, counties and free clinics; which upon your condition becoming so acute that it is now considered emergency treatment are obliged not to let you die in the street . Sounds A-1 first class to me!

    vive la France (et tout le monde, moins les Etas Unis, non?) well, their healthcare, anyway. Oh and their vacation time. i guess id be remiss not to include the high speed rail. or their locally and seasonally based agriculture.

  19. al l July 23, 2009 at 9:41 pm #

    BTW, there is a difference between an anecdote and an example.

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