Bauerle: Islam “Not Compatible” with Western Democracy

9 Sep

There are a hundred reasons why I don’t want to write this post, but having been essentially called out personally, I feel compelled to do so.

Yesterday, I received communications from numerous people asking why WBEN’s Tom Bauerle was saying I have a “crush” on him, or that I’m otherwise gay for him. At around 12:10 yesterday, I emailed him at tom@wben.com to ask if this was true. It’s been 22 hours and the cowardly, gun-toting, little mulleted creature doesn’t have the balls to respond. I figured as much. He’s a coward who hangs up on people who disagree with him because it might take him off-message. He cannot defend his indefensible mouth-shits.

This morning, Bauerle hosted uncredentialed deadbeat Doug Hagmann so that they could engage in a circle-jerk, determining whose “Islam is incompatible with western culture” dick was bigger. On and on and on they went, alternating between making statements and agreeing with each other. Wow.

And then, later on, Bauerle informed his (masochistic) Muslim listeners – both of them – that they shouldn’t worry, he’d be against any mobs attacking Muslims living and working peacefully among us here in WNY. No, no, no. He won’t curry some ignoramus being whipped by him into an anti-Muslim-all-Muslims-want-to-kill-Christians-democracy-America frenzy and then acting on it. That just won’t do.

And Bauerle‘s argument as to why Islam is incompatible with Western civilization? He cites examples like beheadings, honor killings, stonings, and other primitive behaviors that take place in backwards-ass third-world places. But does the Pakistani doctor stone anybody? Does the Bosnian factory worker behead anyone? If the bad acts of some Muslims makes Islam incompatible with Western Democracy, we should ask the same question of people of German heritage. After all, in a mere dozen years, the Germans killed way more innocent people than any Islamic-majority country has in recent memory. Therefore, all Germans must be indicted for the crimes of the German people, and their nation is incompatible with Western civilization, no? That’s the exact argument Bauerle is making.

Turning now to the burning of the Koran by some imbecile down in Florida.

Bauerle grabbed his crayon and construction paper to scrawl some sort of nonsense on WBEN’s website. Let’s take a look at it.

By now, you’ve heard about an anti-Muslim Koran burning scheduled for this Saturday, September 11 in Gainesville, Florida.

This protest has drawn severe fire and sanctimonious rebukes.

Maybe it’s me, but some folks are more upset about the Koran burning than they’ve been about the murder of 3,000 innocents nine years ago in New York, Washington and a field in Pennsylvania.

One of the comments at WBEN’s site said it perfectly: “What an idiot. At least the Wizard of Oz has only one straw man”. Bauerle doesn’t name “some folks” being more upset over this Koran burning bullshit than they were about 9/11, but as we’ve learned over the past few weeks, Tom Bauerle is not above repeatedly using audiotape of a man being murdered on 9/11/01 to make the point that all Muslims are anti-American “islamofascists”.

For the record, I believe this Christian minister has every right to burn as many Korans as he wishes. For all I care, he can roast bacon over the flames while wearing a pork chop loin cloth and singing Christmas Carols.

Why?

It is protected speech, which the left has no problem defending when our national flag is abused.

That being said, I think burning Korans, Bibles, US flags and even The Communist Manifesto of Karl Marx is stupid, unproductive and hateful.

There are many doctrines in print, and I’ve never been inclined to consign any of them to flames, no matter how loathsome to freedom and decency they may be.

Of course it’s protected speech. No one is debating whether this Koran burning is permitted under the 1st Amendment, just as any American has a 1st Amendment right not to be stopped by the government from criticizing this burning of the Koran. Bauerle clearly here misunderstands the 1st Amendment and what it means, but he also takes a swipe at the Koran as being “loathsome to freedom and decency”. Has he ever read it? Have you? Have you read the Bible? Is there stuff in there that doesn’t wash in this day and age? Of course there is.

While many of the media, political and religious elites have excoriated the minister and his church -even employing the old “let’s get his kids to say what a jerk he is” tactic- I want to explain why more than a few Americans are not rushing to throw stones at Rev. Jones.

Ah, strawmen. “Many of the media” – unnamed, uncited, unsourced bullshit. After saying that this minister has a never-disputed 1st Amendment right to burn the Koran, and after saying he thinks it’s stupid, now he’s getting into why he is totally cool with it.

You’ve heard the question a million times: “How will such and such American insensitivity play on the Arab/Muslim street?”

Let me try to explain the view from the Judeo-Christian USA “street.”

There’s a street? Before getting on the air to walk it back, he’s quite obviously alluding to rioting we see on the news from the Middle East, and subliminally suggesting that the same should happen here. Because our civilization should be judged against the lowest common denominator.

For years, people of faith have been subjected to increasingly radical and hard-core intolerance of traditional Western religious beliefs.

Do you remember when the State of Alabama was told by Uncle Sam to remove the Ten Commandments from the rotunda of the state house?

No, I don’t.

I remember when Judge Roy Moore personally installed a granite monument of the 10 Commandments in the rotunda of the Supreme Court of Alabama, and there was a lawsuit and a trial, and the court determined that the installation of a Christian monument in a state court violated the Establishment Clause of the Constitution. Interesting that Bauerle (correctly) supports and acknowledges the 1st Amendment speech rights of some whacko to burn a Koran, but ignores the parts of the Constitution – the parts of that same Amendment to the Constitution – that are inconvenient for him, like the Establishment Clause.

Do you recall the hate speech of the left when Christians were appalled by the photographs of the crucifix in a jar of urine? The delightful “artwork” known as Piss Christ was even paid for by taxpayer money stolen from us by the government and awarded to an artist.

I don’t recall “hate speech” – another unsourced strawman argument from Bauerle. I recall there being a vigorous debate over respecting religion, use of NEA funds, and free speech.

What is bizarre is that I could be fined by the FCC for simply stating on-air the name of this artwork that our government took our money to subsidize.

No, you can’t. A federal court recently struck down the FCC’s indecency policy as overly broad. Using “piss” on the air could arguably be considered indecent if the FCC determined that it constitutes “language or material that, in context, depicts or describes, in terms patently offensive as measured by contemporary community standards for the broadcast medium, sexual or excretory organs or activities.” I don’t think “piss” is quite that shocking to the conscience, and the FCC is currently enjoined from enforcing this unconstitutionally vague rule.

The Virgin Mary covered with dung? Deal with it: it’s “art.”

Strawman.

Even private businesses have replaced “Merry Christmas” with “Happy Holidays” while at the same time urgently reminding us how few days there are until December 25th.

My alma mater, SUNY/Buffalo, welcomed the Dalai Lama with open arms and taxpayer dollars a few years ago. I can remember no Christian leader afforded such respect at UB.

The Dalai Lama is the head of state in exile of Tibet, a Chinese province that lost its autonomy and freedom over time. Here’s the list of past UB speakers. A pretty diverse group. And I love how he got the jump on O’Reilly for the whole “Happy Holidays” faux outrage that comes up every December.

The left has been snarky toward Christians for being “homophobic” and “anti-women,” but oddly seems to have fallen in love with Islam.

Apparently, hanging homosexuals in Iran and shooting women to death in Afghanistan under sharia law does not register on the left’s usually-so-sensitive outrage meter.

More strawmen. No examples, no citations. Just a blanket statement about alleged “snark” and a love affair with Islam. Hanging homosexuals in Iran doesn’t register on the left’s outrage meter? There was plenty of outrage. Plenty. Shooting women to death in Afghanistan goes ignored? I did a Google search for that and didn’t get a hit within the first three pages. But I’ll note that most Bauerle types point to stoning of women, so we’ll roll with that instead.

Stoning as punishment has a long history, and was practiced quite commonly in ancient Israel for mostly sexual crimes, but also for cursing one’s parents, rebelling against one’s parents, idolatry, and Shabbath-breaking. It’s in the Bible.

Today, it is practiced in Sudan, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, and Somalia, pursuant to Sharia law for adultery. Interesting that Bauerle argues continually that Muslims want to institute Sharia Law in America, when they don’t even apply it in every Muslim country.

But in this country, we kill criminals. The United States joins such enlightened beacons of hope and prosperity like: the PRC, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Sudan, Vietnam, Syria, Japan, Egypt, Libya, Bangladesh, Thailand, Singapore, Botswana, Malaysia, and North Korea.

I never quite understand why conservatives like Bauerle point to the despicable practices of third world hellholes and use them examples of just how ok it is for the US to violate its own laws, Constitution, and principles.  We hold ourselves up to a higher standard than Yemen or Saudi. You know, there are exactly as many synagogues in Vatican City as there are in Mecca.

In any event, are we to believe that Tom Bauerle is suddenly some sort of spokesidiot for women’s rights, equality, gay marriage, etc?

In short, more than a few of us see a war against our traditional beliefs at the same time as we are lectured about the need to be tolerant of other religions.

Jews and Christians can rightly ask: “Where is the tolerance for us?”

Lectured by whom, and what sort of straw are they made of? In what way are Jews or Christians not tolerated in the United States? What a load of unsourced, unsupported nonsense.

Against this backdrop, a so-called “moderate Imam” (snicker) and useful idiots on the left propose and support an Islamic Center at Ground Zero. A building close enough to the terror outrage to have had landing gear crash through its roof can be safely called a Ground Zero building.

We are told that the Cordoba Project (significant name) is designed to reach out to the people of New York, yet Imam Rauf has been deaf to the protests of people who are angry and concerned about the site.

In this country, people are free to build whatever they want wherever they want, pursuant to the law. We are a nation of laws, and there is no law preventing Imam Rauf, a Sufi Muslim (read about it), from building a community center in lower Manhattan.

While the Koran burning story is the raging controversy of the moment, the larger issue for thinking Americans is:
Can our form of government and freedoms co-exist with a religious and political system which regards anything BUT Islam and sharia as evil?

Of course it can.

What a seriously fucking stupid question. Religions may be “tolerant” of other religions, but each and every one of them (except maybe the UUs) think that the other religions are all wrong, if not evil and going to hell.

The arguments being made about Islam and Muslims are no different from anti-Catholic rhetoric from the turn of the last century, or against Jews throughout history. They’re different. They’re the source of all our ills. They’re at war against us and our way of life. Same old shit dug up by shit-diggers throughout history. Like I said earlier, through this argument, Bauerle advocates for the expulsion of Muslims from the United States. (Maybe just camps?) After all, their faith “regards anything BUT Islam and sharia as evil”.

Therefore, the owner of the corner store? Back to Yemen. The Pakistani physician? GTFO. Bosnian laborer? See ya. Your faith prohibits you from living peacefully in the United States, according to some cretin on the radio.

Mr. Kipling said it best:
East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet.

Just like a demagogue to cherry-pick from a poem one line that reinforces a weak point. Would that Mr. Bauerle would read on, just a few extra lines.

Oh, East is East and West is West, and never the twain shall meet,
Till Earth and Sky stand presently at God’s great Judgment Seat;
But there is neither East nor West, Border, nor Breed, nor Birth,
When two strong men stand face to face, though they come from the ends of the earth!

Terror is nothing new. Demagoguery is nothing new. Hatred is nothing new. Fear is nothing new. Fear and hatred of different faiths or ethnicities is nothing new. But good people are good people, and bad people are bad people. The good battles the bad every day, and it matters not whether the good is Christian or Muslim, and it matters not whether the bad is German or Chinese. It is important to do battle with the bad and to confront it when it threatens. It’s time for good people to address the threats and hatred from people like Tom Bauerle.

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60 Responses to “Bauerle: Islam “Not Compatible” with Western Democracy”

  1. Rastamick September 9, 2010 at 4:50 pm #

    Wow

  2. Brian Castner September 9, 2010 at 4:53 pm #

    I hesitate to even write, because I don’t want any confusion between me responding to you, and defending Baurle (which is next to impossible). I’ve been contemplating a post on this subject myself. I have a couple questions, if you will indulge.

    1) Do you consider Islam, as practiced in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, to be compatable with Western Democracy?

    2) The theoretical Bosnian factory worker (made of straw?) doesn’t stone anyone to death, but a Muslim woman was beheaded in OP by her Muslim husband. How does that fit in?

    3) What do you think is the relationship between Islam in the West and Islam in the East? Are they even the same faith? Are they related in any way? This is not an academic question for religious scholars – much of your argument is based upon the idea that “The Other” is not be feared in the United States, but is safely Very Far Away, and good Muslims in the US have nothing to do with bad Muslims doing bad things in the name of Islam other places.

    4) Why is it fair to compare Israel of 3000 years ago (stonings) with Saudi Arabia or Iran of 2010. Should we not have made some progress by now? Do we care what happens in other countries? Should we? Please note that while there are bad things in the texts of the three faiths of Abraham (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), there are currently no Jewish states that use the Torah as law, and only one Christian country (the Vatican) which has its own separate law too. There are, however, several Islamic countries that use Sharia as law, and several more international movements that seek to implement the same in other countries (but none of significance that wish to do so here in the US, I will add).

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 6:00 am #

      @Brian:

      1) Do you consider Islam, as practiced in Iran or Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan, to be compatable with Western Democracy?

      It depends on what you mean by that question. You name two countries where Islam is the official state religion, and one country that hasn’t had a properly functioning society or government since the early 70s. In fact, Saudi’s Constitution is the Koran, and its legal system is based on Sharia law. Compared with Saudi Arabia, Iran is a progressive democracy that actually holds elections and whatnot, but the entire state is, in the end, run by a bunch of clerics. So what Iran and Saudi Arabia show is that it’s never, ever a good idea to let religion run politics because religions – especially when practiced by fundamentalist elements – are seldom compatible with a free, western, secular Democracy regardless of whether the praying is towards Mecca or to Jesus.

      The question, therefore, is fallacious. The issue is – can Muslims live peacefully and productively as members of a secular western democracy, and the answer is palpably yes.

      2) The theoretical Bosnian factory worker (made of straw?) doesn’t stone anyone to death, but a Muslim woman was beheaded in OP by her Muslim husband. How does that fit in?

      A very large proportion of my client base when I worked in Boston was made up of Bosnian refugees with last names like Ismailovic who escaped what can only be described as a genocide, so those were the people I had in mind when I brought them up. As for the lunatic in OP, he sliced her neck because he was a lunatic. OJ Simpson sliced Nicole Brown’s head almost clear off, but no one ascribed that to his Christian faith.

      3) What do you think is the relationship between Islam in the West and Islam in the East? Are they even the same faith? Are they related in any way? This is not an academic question for religious scholars – much of your argument is based upon the idea that “The Other” is not be feared in the United States, but is safely Very Far Away, and good Muslims in the US have nothing to do with bad Muslims doing bad things in the name of Islam other places.

      The relationship between them is that they carry out the 5 pillars of the faith, read the Koran, and otherwise practice their religion just like Catholics do on Sunday and Jews do on Friday. Some Imams and some mosques are more fundamentalist, extreme, and hostile to western culture and society than others. It all depends on myriad factors, but I don’t think it can be boiled down to “they do it this way in the East, but they do it this way in the West”. I have no doubt that there are very bad Muslims indeed who live right here in the United States, planning and thinking about bad things. The adjective “Muslim” is incidental, however – there are bad people planning and thinking bad things everywhere, at every time. But we can’t go around demonizing one entire faith just because some of its adherents are crazy assholes.

      4) Why is it fair to compare Israel of 3000 years ago (stonings) with Saudi Arabia or Iran of 2010. Should we not have made some progress by now? Do we care what happens in other countries? Should we? Please note that while there are bad things in the texts of the three faiths of Abraham (Jews, Christians, and Muslims), there are currently no Jewish states that use the Torah as law, and only one Christian country (the Vatican) which has its own separate law too. There are, however, several Islamic countries that use Sharia as law, and several more international movements that seek to implement the same in other countries (but none of significance that wish to do so here in the US, I will add).

      There are no states that use the Torah as law, but Temples sure do. And Christian fundamentalists are quick to point out that they believe the Constitution to be based on God’s law in general, and the 10 Commandments in particular. In the end, the question is whether the laws are written by politicians or by clerics. The use of Sharia varies from country to country where there is a majority Muslim population. Yes, we should care when human rights are violated in any country, and clearly stoning someone is quite medieval. But the authority for stoning someone – whether you’re a Muslim, Jew, or Christian – comes from a thousands-year old text. If you’re a religious fundamentalist, that text is the law and the one truth. The implementation of thousands-year old rules comes down to how deviant its adherent is. That must be why so very few Muslim countries – almost exclusively backwards-ass, wartorn hellholes – practice stoning. Islam isn’t some monolith where everyone behaves as they do in Iran or Saudi. Islam isn’t some faith where all of its adherents are just biding their time until the Taliban take over the world, establish a new Caliphate, and implement Sharia law in the United States. But that’s what cretins like Bauerle are pushing.

      In the end, we know that Islam and Western Democracy are compatible as evidenced by the literally millions of Muslims who live and work in Western Democracies in a peaceful and productive way. They vote, go to PTA meetings, pay their bills, open businesses, eat at Denny’s, and do what every other Westerner does. To demonize the entire faith based on the bad acts of a very few crazy people would be akin to ascribing Terry Jones’ insanity on all Christians.

      In any event, Turkey is a mostly-Asian parliamentary democratic republic that has a large Muslim majority. Not for nothing Turkey used to be the seat of the expansionist, Muslim Ottoman Empire. It is a secular western democracy and in in the process of negotiating its entry to the European Union. For every Afghanistan, Iran, and Saudi Arabia, there’s a Morocco, Tunisia, Egypt, Indonesia, Jordan, etc. Perhaps not pillars of Democracy, but not state sponsors of terrorism, either.

  3. Chris Smith September 9, 2010 at 6:36 pm #

    Al Qaeda is to Islam as Westboro Baptist is to Christianity.  Been waiting to write that somewhere, this seemed to be the best ft.  Have a great day!

  4. Liz M September 9, 2010 at 7:39 pm #

    I’m glad I’ve found your blog. 

  5. BobbyCat September 9, 2010 at 8:03 pm #

    Bauerle suffers from classic small man syndrome. His anecdote is to talk tough and urge others to be tough like the man he wishes he were. His hero, Limbaugh, suffers from fat man syndrome. An ugly duckling who was scorned by women and flunked out of college and disappointed his overbearing father, radio personalities like Limbaugh and Bauerle are notorious narcissists. Their “love” for themselves is a cover for crushing insecurity. Bauerle masquerades his insecurity about being a shrimp, Limbaugh masquerades his intellectual inferiority with flourishes of rhetoric. It’s the reason that neither invite guests to debate. They’re not equipped for it. As Bendanko points out, Bauerle hangs-up on callers with solid arguments; Limbaugh’s callers are tightly screened, no intellects welcome, only dittoheads.

    It’s a waste of time deconstructing their flaccid arguments. It’s all demagoguery, so what’s the use? They demagogue every issue, every day. I once asked Doug Hageman if he had worked for any intelligence agency or had any professional credentials. His hemmed and hawed with about 50 “ahhhhh”s” and 100 “errrrr’s. After I listened to him vamping for a few minutes, Bauerle hung up on me.

    So what’s the point? Bauerle is trying to en-flame his audience on the voice of the Republican Party – WBEN. From time to time, I will listen for a few minutes until I hear him insult democrats, then I phone a few of his advertisers and tell them why I will NEVER darken their threshold. Usually they say “We had no idea he insults Democrats”. No matter, I still won’t buy their products.

  6. Pauldub September 9, 2010 at 8:11 pm #

    Religion is only the thin fabric that men use as an excuse to perform atrocities that in truth have nothing to do with said religion.
    “So many people have died in the name of Christ
    That I can’t believe it all.”
    from “Cathedral” Crosby Stills Nash (and Young)
    See also: Spanish Inquisition, Crusades, etc.
    Barbaric behavior and sensationalism are not exclusive to any one religion.

  7. BrianS. September 9, 2010 at 8:29 pm #

    Alan, very well done. The reality is that most who don’t see through Bauerle and his pathetic ilk are likely too dumb to appreciate how well you articulated a point that is NOT being made.
    The sad truth is that Bauerle remains unchallenged in his timeslot, which is why he has good ratings. If he had actual competition, his ramblings would be a lot less listened to. They really oughta dump his ignorant ass. That crowd will still listen since it’s the only game in town.

  8. BrianS. September 9, 2010 at 8:34 pm #

    Alan, very well done. The reality is that most who don’t see through Bauerle and his pathetic ilk are likely too dumb to appreciate how well you articulated a point that is NOT being made as much as it should.
    The sad truth is that Bauerle remains unchallenged in his timeslot, which is why he has good ratings. If he had actual competition, his ramblings would be a lot less listened to. They really oughta dump his ignorant ass. That crowd will still listen since it’s the only game in town.

  9. Tom Dolina September 9, 2010 at 9:15 pm #

    I just wanted to comment before the site went down again!

  10. Dcaff September 9, 2010 at 10:25 pm #

    I read this entire post on my I-phone and it was well worth it.

  11. STEEL September 9, 2010 at 10:36 pm #

    If a wacked out Muslim guy kills his wife that means ALL Muslims are evil.  If a wacked out Christian guy kills his wife it means that the guy is a crazy. 

    Good thing we have not seen the pedophilia outbreak with the Muslim clerics like we have with teh Chirtisans.  If that were the cse they would all have that hanging on them too.

  12. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 8:47 am #

    Should I do the bullet by bullet? This could take a while.

    1. The point I was getting to is that stonings, kangaroo courts, beheadings, absolute power in the hands of a clerical leader, etc are incompatable with Western Democracy. I think you finally got around to saying that. I’m not sure that proves any country run by a religion is bad – I think Tibet might be nice (and we have very few modern examples of any faith) – but it does prove fundamental Sharia-based law is incompatable. I think we need to start with that distinction because it eliminates the equivocation of the Blame America First school of liberal thought that says other cultures and countries are not better or worse, but merely misunderstood by us ignorant Americans. I am a prettty well traveled, and I embrace lots of cultures different than mine. But not stonings and beheadings.

    2. The lunatic in OP sliced her head off as an honor killing in the name of his faith. And when a lunatic sniper shoots an abortion provider in the name of his faith, its different than the City Grill shooting too. Motive counts. That doesn’t tar all Muslims. It recognizes a problem to be addressed by our society generally. Muslims are welcome to come live, work, and worship, of course. But they are not welcome to cut their wife’s head off, or mutilate their daughter’s genitals, or kill her if she wants to wear jeans (http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheat-sheet/item/honor-killings-in-america/tragedy/). Those portions of your faith/culture/tradition are incompatable, and illegal, and we’re going to stop them. Just calling everyone a lunatic does a disservice.

    3. With globalization and the intertubes, I think the distinction is less and less important. But once again, if you drop the adjective “Muslim,” and just say bad people everywhere are doing bad things, it glosses over the fact that Muslims in Yemen are raising money and directing attacks for Muslim adherents in Texas. These distinctions are important if we are going to stop such things in the future. The connections matter.

    4. I don’t really care about the authoirty, I care about what and where it has been implemented. Fundamental Jews and Christians in states around the world have no where near the power that fundamentalist Muslims have in Saudi Arabia, Iran, etc. Your matter of proportion is all out of wack. Not every Muslim wants to reestablish the caliphate with Sharia law. But a terrifyingly large percentage of the populations of Pakistan, Afghanistan, the Middle East, North Africa and Indonesia do. Not 1 or 2%. 25% to 50%, depending on where, and what survey you believe.

    The end result is that individual moderate Muslims are very compatable with Western Democracy when they become part of it, and fundamental Islam as practiced in many other parts of the world is not. One can influence the other, and it appears to be mostly one way. I don’t see a lot of moderation in Wahhabi Saudi Arabia because of the appeals of individual moderate Muslims in the US. Is there a middle road between Fear of the Other and sticking one’s enlightened and equivocating head in the sand?

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 9:29 am #

      @Brian:

      You’re pointing out how bad countries and bad leaders manipulate religion to maintain autocratic control over a people. I mean, if your question is “are things that are incompatible with Western Democracy incompatible with Western Democracy?” then I’ll gladly agree with you. But what difference does it make if the purity police stone an adulterer or the secret police beat a dissident protester? The only reason you’re reacting to stonings is because it’s so archaic. But being beaten by a club doesn’t hurt any less or more than being hit by a rock. I don’t think anyone “embraces” stonings or beheadings except for brutal, evil people. There are plenty of those, regardless of how many times a day they pray, or in which direction.

      Frankly, I’d argue that all religion is “incompatible with Western Democracy”, and that’s why we keep a wall of separation between them.

      As for the lunatic in OP, you’re speculating that it was an honor killing. I don’t think anyone knows for sure, but since he’s Muslim, we’ll jump to that conclusion. Motive does count (you realize that conservatives generally don’t support the notion of hate crimes, right?) but no one’s sure about the motive behind the OP guy. Yes, there are honor killings in America, and those people should be punished. But not all Muslims practice them, and it would be silly to think, say, or assume that they do – or that their faith commands them to.

      You raise the specter of international funding for terrorism here in the US. That’s hardly anything new, especially when you have a certain subset of Islam intent on waging a war of civilizations against the West. I’m not denying that this conflict exists – I’m saying that we cannot and should not lump all Muslims into that lunatic subset just because they pray from the same book or wear a beard or cover their heads. We have intelligence, law enforcement, and military forces working to prevent terrorist attacks. I’m not going to sit around living my life afraid of being a victim of a suicide bombing because there are lunatics who want to kill me in that way. The fact that they’re Muslim is irrelevant – they’re terrorists. Terrorism is what we’re fighting – not Islam.

      The problem you address has to do with the fact that many Muslim countries also happen to be largely backwards-ass third world countries. Most of them are totalitarian dictatorships to one degree or another. Therefore, the people who live in those countries are rather ignorant and mis/disinformed. They want a caliphate, you say? Probably because their leaders have to distract them with shiny objects such as the supposed past greatness of the Muslim world in order to get them to ignore the fact that their only life achievement will be trading in dust and otherwise being poor and downtrodden. Like I said, it doesn’t take much to get a people to go completely insane. See Germany 1933 – 1945.

  13. al l September 10, 2010 at 9:09 am #

    Should I call the Turks and let them know they have to give up the republic thing. I know its been around since the 1920’s, but it was a good run.

  14. joker September 10, 2010 at 9:31 am #

    Is there one Muslim country that has a functioning, Western style government? And don’t say Turkey, please don’t. The “republic” that’s “been around since the 1920s” suffered coup d’ etats in 1961, 1971, 1980 and 1997. And the people of northern Cyprus don’t really get to vote if they want to be governed by Turkey or not. Certain political parties have been banned from participating in elections, political leaders have been jailed etc. So please, don’t compare Turkey to a “Western democracy.”

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 9:44 am #

      @Joker – Albania, Morocco, Jordan, & Bosnia. After all, a constitutional monarchy is as “Western Style” a government as it gets. I also lurve your reasons why Turkey isn’t “functioning” because of past coups. Countries don’t get to accede to the EU if they’re not functioning & stable Western-style democracies.

  15. Christopher Smith September 10, 2010 at 9:54 am #

    Is there one Muslim country that has a functioning, Western style government?

    Who cares? Why does every nation need to have a western style democracy?

  16. Christopher Smith September 10, 2010 at 9:55 am #

    I’ll say it, I think Tom Bauerle is the biggest closet case in WNY. I’m bored with this self-loathing dummy. He and Steve Pigeon should go bowling.

  17. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 10:07 am #

    I think everyone needs to reread the latest from Turkey – they aren’t joining the EU anytime soon (latest I read in The Economist was 10-15 years based on reforms) for the reason Alan gives – they are not a Western style democracy.

    Alan – I’m just going to address your last point, because I think your misperception of the Islamist threat is very common. Yes, there are plenty of poor uneducated in Afghanistan that can’t read and want the caliphate. But the populations of Pakistan, Egypt, etc are far more educated and literate and they want a caliphate too. And the Islamists that are a threat to Americans are not the dirt eaters. The profile of an international Islamist terrorist is a western educated, upper-class young man. The 9/11 bombers were studying engineering in Germany. The Times Square bomber is the son of a Vice-Air Marshal in Pakstan, had an MBA, and lived in a NYC suburb. The dirt eaters don’t have time for Jihad – they have crops to bring in. Young men with the money and the time are the problem.

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 10:27 am #

      Pakistanis and Egyptians live under authoritarian dictatorships and don’t have anything really resembling a modern culture of any sort, and both places are a few bullets away from becoming the next Iraq or Afghanistan. What you’re saying is that the pattern of, say, the 9/11 bombers and other people who have generally been recruited into al Qaeda is that they’re generally well-off kids. IOW, disaffected privileged fucks who are rebelling against mommy, daddy, and society. What better way to say, “pay attention to me, daddy” than to join a religious or death cult (or a combination of the two).

      Because the only American culture is popular culture, we don’t have some ancient glory to hold up as the only “good old days” that ever existed for our people. Kids from the Middle East do. They’re still pissed about the Crusades, after all.

  18. al l September 10, 2010 at 10:14 am #

    Joker,

    You realize that the military is regarded as the protector of secularism in Turkey, right? And after each putsch, there is a return to elected government?

    Its not the most elegant system, but have you seen the US Senate lately?

    Further, if military governments from 30 years ago disqualify nations as western democracies, I think you should call the EU and get Spain booted. Particularly since the Franco regime had such close ties with religious conservatives.

  19. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 10:28 am #

    The Christians in Rwanda committed one of the greatest genocides in world history, The Christians in Serbia were also involved in a Genocide as were the Christians in Germany. In Nigeria Christians accuse innocent children of being witches. They torture them in Christian exorcism rituals and then cast them out of their villages. In America Christian cleric rape children. Also in America Christians have been know to form suicide groups where they feed innocent children poison koolaid. Not to be outdone Christian Americans wages a centuries long campaign of terror and murder on African Americans. In Central and South America many solidly Christian nations are essentially run by drug lords where force is an acceptable means of getting what you want.

    Is Christianity incompatible with human decency?

  20. BobbyCat September 10, 2010 at 11:23 am #

    The book burning pastor in Fla exhibits the same personality disorder as Bauerle and most shock jocks: narcissism. The story is always about me,me,me and me. But…Bauerle might add,
    “Enough about me; What do you think of me?”

    The larger story is not about self aggrandizing little napoleons who crave their five minutes of infamy , it’s about the very real possibility of murderous acts that can be ignited by any nut job with a microphone, a pulpit or a laptop. The (mostly) civil debates on these web sites are fine, but they won’t reach the irrational crazies who are pushed over the edge by……what, exactly?

    The “what” must be defined. What is the cause of terrorism? Love of God? My God is better than your god? You and your god are infidels, but my God is supreme?

    I don’t think its about god although god takes the rap. I think its about the enormous, volcanic power of hormone-induced sexual frustration by teen-aged boys who are forbidden any outlet for their normal desires. The promise of scores of virgins for horny boys who choose to explode themselves is too great a temptation for that small minority of boys who are driven crazy by sexual urges. Martyrdom becomes a convenient outlet. Look at the advantages: You can spend eternity screwing virgins, while becoming a hero in the eyes of your god, your country and your family, and…your family will be honored in their communities and likely paid some gratuities. It’s a win-win for disillusioned boys.

    The Florida pastor suffers the same kind of delusions as the terrorist bombers. Or maybe he is worse. He must know that Americans abroad will die if he burns books. But apparently he doesn’t care. I think that Bauerle knows the same thing – that Americans will die if books are burned. I think radicals are so crazy to discredit a black President that any method, any atrocity, is fair game, in their twisted minds.

  21. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 11:44 am #

    @ Alan and Bobbycat – what you describe, and also this: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=125186382

    @ STEEL: I want you to look up the word “equivocate” in the dictionary and tell me what you find.

  22. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 12:07 pm #

    “to avoid committing oneself in what one says” ex: exclaiming you are not a bigot while spouting bigotry.

    Can you deny that Christianity is not an evil religion based on the proof I have shown? I know you are fond of showing examples of Muslim atrocities. Perhaps you could take on Christianity as well. I understand that the Christians are interested in taking over the American government using first amendment remedies and are intent on forcing their laws on all people Christian or not.

  23. Michael September 10, 2010 at 12:30 pm #

    The fact that we have folks willing to debate Alan on this at this level says volumes about why we can’t compete in the world and why America is in her sunset.

    WBEN should have their license taken away. They serve no public good. Please write to FCC and complain. Boycott their advertisers. Please list them if you know of them.

  24. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 12:32 pm #

    @ STEEL: I need to thank you. Your constant missing of the point makes it easier for everyone else to understand.

    In the section on Symbolism in another article, that you said you didn’t understand, I talked about how Christianity is tarred with the sins of its past, just as Islam is tarred with sins committed in its name as well.

    In the section on Tolerance in another article, that you said you didn’t understand, I showed how it is possible to differentiate between all of the actions taken by individuals in the name of a particualr religion. Christianity means salvation or child abuse, Islam means peace or beheadings. I’m pretty sure I have never called religion evil. Alan called all religion not consistent with Western democracy, but that’s different.

    If you are comparing evangelicals in America to the Taliban in Afghanistan, and the relative power, success, and effect of each, you need to look at that definition of equivocate again. And its Second Amendment remedies, not First. Read the Constitution again, while you are at it.

  25. BobbyCat September 10, 2010 at 1:04 pm #

    @Michael. A long list of WBEN advertisers is overkill for most. I suggest you listen to your “favorite” WBEN show and find a few advertisers and phone them with specific complaints and tell them about your boycott. They will likely claim that they have no control over program content, but don’t accept their buck-passing BS. BTW, make sure you get pass the receptionist and speak with someone in charge.

    Many night-time advertisers are stunned to find that the WBEN signal goes booming into Toronto but can’t be heard a few miles past the the first ring suburbs. If you don’t believe it, try it…..not on a car radio…..but on your home radio. Advertisers are unwittingly paying inflated advertising rates for demographics that include millions of Toronto folk, but can’t be heard in Buffalo suburbs.

    @Brian. Jihad Jane and other “lazy jihadists” might be an MTV phenomenon, but I think that the sex-starved jihadist is the norm. Our media has no clue and no appetite for dealing with any story with sexual content. Sexual content is still verbotten.

    In a related matter, watch the documentary “This Film Is Not Yet Rated”. I was astonished to find that American films are rated by a film board that consists of church lady fuddy-duddies that includes fundamentalist preachers with agendas.

  26. Hank September 10, 2010 at 1:28 pm #

    Good God Almighty—–where does one start?

    Alan—I’m amazed that you gave up time from your life to write about Bauerle. You can’t get that time back. And I’m also sure that you gave Bauerle a chubby he’ll be stroking all weekend because you paid him so much attention by posting about him.

    As for his saying you have a “crush” on him or other homosexual feelings, he’s banking on you responding by calling him a “faggot” or whatnot, because many liberals will drop to that level when in hot debate. Glad at least you didn’t give him that satisfaction.

    PLEASE don’t refer to Bauerle as a Conservative. Any group or movement has their fair share of whackos. Speaking for Conservatives Nationwide—–HE’S NOT ONE OF US, not for real-for real, K?

    As for this Florida Pastor, he’s got about as much sense, or perhaps the same type of mental disorder, as Jim Jones or David Koresh. Burning Korans? Why—because muslims in 3rd world shitholes burn Bibles? That’s like 2 kids in the sandbox saying “My dad can beat up your dad”, or some such nonsense. The fact that the MSM is giving him so much attention that it only whets his appetite for more. Since none of the merry band of liberals that read this blog never watch O’Reilly, he said “I’m not mentioning this man’s name (Terry Jones) or what he intends to do. No Publicity on The Factor”. Perhaps the Obama Regime’s media outlets should have done the same. What bothers me most is your straw men—-the Bosnian laborer, the Pakistani Doctor. Don’t fight his straw man arguments with straw men of your own. Down South in Jim Crow times, every white man had his “Good N****r”. At the Wansee Conference, Reinhard Heydrich said “Every German has his ‘Good Jew’, even if he looks at all the rest of the Jews as vermin”.

    I think that those who also espoouse your outlook that all of Islam are peace loving people is just the reverse. Remember that all who practice Islam are NOT TERRORISTS. But nearly every terrorist the US has had to deal with PRACTICES ISLAM.

  27. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 1:56 pm #

    Brian,

    Thanks for the correction but this is not a battle of typos so your smug comments about reading the constitution is not appreciated.

    You seem reasonable and intelligent except when you equivocate on your supposed acceptance and tolerance of all faiths. You keep warning us about the dangers of the Muslim faith and then running from your bigotry by claiming you are not against Muslims. Then WTF are you saying? What exactly are you saying?

    If I apply your metric against the Christian faith I should be horrified. I mean my God – Christian leadership rapes children and we allow them to run grammar schools! This is not something from the Christian past! It is still fucking going on right now! Christian genocides are recent something from ancient times. Christians today point to their own Bible to justify bigotry, racism and genocide.

  28. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 2:00 pm #

    Oh by the way Brian, I am quite sure our American christian evangelicals would pretty much resemble the Taliban if our Democracy did not stand in their way – as evidence I give you the current Christian book burning wack-job down in Florida.

    A fanatic is a fanatic no matter their religion or skin color.

  29. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 2:47 pm #

    I know its not a matter of typos – I thought you got the content wrong. Sharron Angle (I know Tea Partiers and evangelicals are lumped together in your head as The Other to be feared)stressed the need for “Second Amendment Remedies” (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/08/sharron-angle-addresses-s_n_709518.html) – i.e. using guns. We ALL have First Amendment remedies – i.e. saying what you wish, freedom of religion, and all that. Are you saying evangelicals should not use their First Amendment remedies? That they should not sue? That those you disagree with should just stop talking? How enlightened.

    If you think denouncing stonings and beheadings is bigotry, then I can’t help you. I’ll denounce child rape if that helps too. Why are you in such a tizzy about saving historic Churches if they are run by criminals. Because they are pretty? Or is this all an indulgent rhetorical flourish?

    I am not warning you about the Muslim faith. I am warning that the proportion of fanatics that call themselves Muslim, and support extremist views, is terrifying. And in this, I think it is the height of American exceptionalist ignorance, for us – a bunch of white Christians, Jews, atheists or agnostics (I don’t want to speak for anyone) from middle America – to look across the ocean and declare which Muslims are “real” Muslims and which are simple “lunatics” or “fanatics” hijacking that faith, because some like to wear jeans and listen to Lady Gaga, and some don’t. If the Taliban call themselves Muslim, I take their word for it. (Before you say it, no, I am not saying we should fear all Muslims or hate all Muslims, in the US or otherwise – do you really not get the nuance and the distinction?) The fundamental Islamist movement is not a tiny fringe, like the wack job in Florida. As the WH Press Secretary pointed out, there are more reporters covering this pastor than there are members of his congregation. If only we could say the same about many of the armed Islamist groups all over the world.

    Last point: you think the thin line of Democracy is all that stands in the way of American evangelicals starting an armed civil war, seizing the capital of the United States, instituting Leviticus as the law of the land, and commencing with the stoning of gays and adulterers? Really? This is the prime equivocation problem with the Left, of who’s views you fairly represent here – the equating of just about anything in the shitholes Alan and I referenced with similar problems here. They stone people, but we have the death penalty! They have the Taliban, but we have evangelicals! They have warlords, but we had Bush, who stole an election too! Chris Smith says AQ is to Islam as Westboro Baptist is to Christianity. That will be true when Westboro kills 3000 people in a single day.

  30. joker September 10, 2010 at 2:51 pm #

    I thought we were talking about Western-style democracies and not about who committed the most atrocities. Despite the assurances of al l, the people of Turkey do not have the freedom that people in Western democracies do. I’m sorry about that, but it’s true. And Turkey is the most progressive Muslim country in the world, maybe the only one.

    Michael wants to suppress WBEN in much the same way that the hillbilly pastor wants to suppress the Koran, and Christopher seems to be arguing that the governments of Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, Iran, Iraq and Jordan are every bit as good as the government of the United States.

    What can one say, really?

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 3:28 pm #

      I don’t have a right to health insurance. The US is the only industrialized democracy which doesn’t make that guarantee. By @Joker’s argument, the US is not a Western-style democracy.

  31. JohnnyWalker September 10, 2010 at 3:02 pm #

    In re functioning Islamic Democracies. Indonesia . 4th largest country in the world. 88%Muslim. Elected a Woman President in 2000 or 2001.

  32. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 3:20 pm #

    Brian, What I don’t get is what an American mosque / community center has to do with some ass hole medieval thinking idiot in a backward country. You keep saying that you are not lumping them together and the in the next line you do. I don’t thing there has been one Muslim stoning in America. Why is that even an issue here then?

    Here is you:
    “2) The theoretical Bosnian factory worker (made of straw?) doesn’t stone anyone to death, but a Muslim woman was beheaded in OP by her Muslim husband. How does that fit in?”

    So tell me what are saying here. This guy is a Muslim and he is a nut case….and…what?

    I am not anti Christian- I am just using your logic to show that Christians are a dangerous movement in this country – a movement which more and more often calling for the over throw or our government to impose Christian values (read biblical laws-) Yet you focus your attention on the violence coming out of countries which have never ever had democratic rule and what? What are you saying? To me you are saying if you see a Muslim you should be careful because it is likely they are dangerous – That is bigotry

  33. joker September 10, 2010 at 3:33 pm #

    Yes…Indonesia, that paragon of democracy. Perhaps the people of East Timor or those living under the boot of sharia in Aceh would care to weigh in?

    @ Alan…Health care? We’re talking about health care now? I guess the theory here is that changing the subject completely is the best bet when one is losing a debate. Absurd.

    • Alan Bedenko September 10, 2010 at 3:58 pm #

      @joker the point is that Turkey has a different set of rights than other countries. Not every country can have the same rights as us. So, good job missing the point.

  34. Hank September 10, 2010 at 3:47 pm #

    @Steel You seem to forget in all of your rantings, that every religion is made up of human beings. They have flaws of character and are most certainly fallible. Even the people who populate the hierarchy of religious denominations are fallible. ALL OF US are fallible, except Jesus Christ, and some whack job who calls himself Steel in Chicago, apparently. I don’t care if the guy is some Baptist Bible Beater, A Cardinal in the Catholic Church, or these whacked out Imams. They’re just people. And assuming from his rants that Steel is a godless heathen, you can fool yourself all day long. Just can’t fool the Big Guy.

  35. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 4:01 pm #

    You are not even reading what I am saying Hank

  36. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 4:22 pm #

    @ STEEL: Your simplistic thinking is exhausting. Are there colors other than black and white in your world? This is the last time, and then I’m starting a New Year’s resolution to never get baited by you again.

    So we’re talking about mosques now? Any mosque? Alan and I were talking about how Islam in America is related to Islam in other countries. Some aspects of the faith are the same and some different. Some mosques in America are radical (the first WTC attack was planned in Brooklyn) and some (most) are not. Some Muslims in Jordan are radical and some aren’t. This is not an all or nothing question. What do the two have to do with eachother? Maybe just the name on the outside of the building (mosque). Maybe one is funding the other. Its case by case. Its not black and white. Just like your “there have been no stonings, so everything is fine.” I can’t find an example of stonings. I can find examples of honor killings. Do those count? That’s why its an issue here.

    Or were you relating back to Park51? My head is spinning from the cognative dissonance of the Left on this issue now. I hear all these Libs saying that the pastor in Florida has the RIGHT to burn the Koran but SHOULDN’T because its offensive. Where was everyone on Park51? I use the same argument in both cases – I’m against burning books, desecrating the sacred of any faith, and constructing a “bridge-building” community center where it will do the most to offend, not help. The only consistency I see on the Left on this is that Imam Rauf is “moderate”, so he should exercise his First Amendment rights, but Pastor What’s His Name is “radical,” so he shouldn’t. I thought we were our most American when we allowed someone to say something we disagreed with?!

    On your second point, I was asking an honest question – Alan creates a number of examples of peaceful Muslims living in America. Great! How do American Muslims that do bad things in the name of their faith fit in in Alan’s America? In my book, they fit in the same place as snipers who shoot abortion providers in the name of Christianity: criminals who create a stain on their faith. But everyone in your world is an medieval idiot or a nut case – that’s not only condescending, and but its a factual whitewash and allows you to put your head in the sand. Fortunately, others take the threat of religious inspired violence seriously, whether its Christian or Muslim based (or EVEN if its Muslim based, I should say).

    I would like some proof that “more and more” there is a Chrsitian movement in this country to overthrow the government. I know facts are irrelevant to your opinions, but reporting shows evangelicals leaving politics (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2004406277_evangvote11m.html), and being replaced by Tea Partiers as the energy of the Republican party. Just because you disagree with both DOESN’T MAKE THEM THE SAME THING! Dumb ass.

    So, to summarize, if you see “a Muslim” (what do they all look like, anyway?), you should not be careful because they are “likely” to be dangerous. When you see “a Christian” do you consider them to be dangerous because you think they wish to overthrow the government violently and stone everyone? I’m sorry that you equate factually describing the world and bigotry. Its your choice to be prejudical and bigoted in your black and white world. In mine, I am able to understand the goals of Islamist groups in our country and others, and still manage not to fear every Muslim I meet. Why don’t you look up “prejudice” in the dictionary too.

    You never answered my question about whether evangelicals should not resort to their First Amendment remedies, by the way.

  37. joker September 10, 2010 at 4:38 pm #

    @Alan. I thought the point was that expressed in the headline, “Baurele: “Islam not compatible” with Western democracy. Nothing you wrote in you lengthy original post and nothing you or your followers have written concerning all manner of nonsense like health care, the Ground Zero construction site, the hillbilly burning Korans etc., etc., has offered up a convincing argument to dispute the opinion you were attacking this Bauerle person for saying.

    Christopher even said “Who cares? Why does every nation need to have a western style democracy?” before calling Bauerle a homosexual. If nobody cares, what was the point of the headline?

  38. Rob September 10, 2010 at 4:47 pm #

    “Cognative” (nice Palinism!) dissonance consists in drawing a clear distinction between building an Islamic community center, dedicated to building tolerance, two blocks from ground zero, and burning copies of the Qur’an just to get attention? I guess I’m afflicted with this condition too.

    *wanders off, dissonantly*

  39. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 4:47 pm #

    Oh stooping to using the work “Libs” No you sound silly. The pastor should not burn the books first because it will arouse assholes who we are at war with causing our troops to be endangered. That is a compelling reason. I have heard no compelling reason why the Muslim community center should not be built – oh unless we the compelling reason is that Muslims in backward countries condone stoning people.

    So since I am so dense and you are not saying anything about Muslims that you are not also saying about others tell me – WHAT THE FUCK are you saying?

    Oh, by the way the tea party people are overwhelmingly Christian if not 100% so. Are they all fundamentalists? I don’t know. Is that differentiation important to you now?

  40. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 4:55 pm #

    @ Rob: Yeah, that lack of spell check gets me every time.

    @ STEEL: I almost choked at the endanger troops comment. How much concern have to shown in the past? Your inability to distinguish between politically active evangelicals with a Christian based agenda and Tea Party folks who happen to be Christian but have a tax-based and “leave me alone” agenda says everything about you lumping everyone you disagree with together, and having no ability to nuance.

    On one line you say you aren’t anti-Christian, and on another you say they are all child molesters running schools? What are you saying?

  41. Rob September 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    Yeah well typos aside, my point was that comparing Park 51 and “Reverend” Jones is the mother of all false equivalencies. You really can’t see the difference there — without risking cognitive dissonance?

  42. joker September 10, 2010 at 5:01 pm #

    @Steel….I am saying that I think Bauerle was correct, if he was quoted accurately by Alan. I also agree that fundamental Protestantism is not good for Western democracy, or fundamental Catholicism. All would impose theological tyranny, which is why good Western democracies have a firewall between church and state. The problem arises because, while there aren’t any Protestant or Catholic dictatorships anywhere in the world, there are plenty of Islamic ones. The Tea Party is a marginal American political phenomenon. Muslim dictatorships rule significant numbers of human beings around the world, command significant armies and are very well armed.

  43. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 5:12 pm #

    Brian – Your ability to make fine distinctions between types of Christians while being completely unable or unwilling to do the same for Muslims says everything we need to know about you.

    My statements are meant hyperbole to emphasize the hypocrisy, ignorance and inconsistency of your position. This apparently has slipped right over your’s and Ward’s head. If I use your own rhetoric and point it at Christians instead of Muslims I am called a Christian hater? Are you joking with this line of debate?

    I have always been concerned for the well being of our troops. What makes you think otherwise?

  44. Ethan September 10, 2010 at 5:16 pm #

    it’s like The News, but with much longer words!

  45. Brian Castner September 10, 2010 at 5:19 pm #

    @ STEEL: I’ve spent 5000 words today making fine distinctions between various Muslim groups. I’m not going to waste any more on you.

    @ Rob: Of course I see a difference. The FL Pastor should have been ignored from the start, and is wrong. But I have spent many hours arguing the mosque issue on this site, and much of what I heard from the Lefty type commenters was “They have the right to build the mosque!” Full stop. The right was all that was required. Well, this Pastor has the right to burn the Koran, and there is plenty of outrage. There should be. But what happened to the “He has a right to do it!” argument?

  46. STEEL September 10, 2010 at 5:25 pm #

    Blah blah Brian. You also came on stating that we must be very wary of the Muslim because they are Muslim. Why not stop the equivocation Brian

  47. Ward September 10, 2010 at 6:00 pm #

    @STEEL: “Thanks for the correction but this is not a battle of typos so your smug comments about reading the constitution is not appreciated.”

    Helpful grammar hint–the nouns and the verbs is supposed to agree in number.

  48. Chris Smith September 10, 2010 at 6:15 pm #

    Christopher even said “Who cares? Why does every nation need to have a western style democracy?” before calling Bauerle a homosexual.

    The first is a sincere question, why do we feel that every country needs a western style democracy?  Perhaps they aren’t ready, capable or interested.  Not every country values capitalism as a basis for their social structure and governmental system.

    Also, I say Bauerle is a closet case because I think he is. I hope one day that Tom comes to reconcile who he is with the angry little homophobic xenophobe that he pretends to be. When it does happen, he’ll be happier and we’ll be treated to better radio.

  49. joker September 10, 2010 at 7:27 pm #

    @Christopher…I don’t feel that every, or even any, country needs a Western style democracy. The problem arises when someone in this country is attacked for stating the obvious, as Mr. Bauerle was in the headline of Alan’s piece. It seems to me that your philosophical argument on the issue of Western democracy would be with Alan rather than Bauerle. Personally, I think that every human being would like to enjoy the “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness” Americans of all races, religions and creeds take for granted in 2010, but perhaps I’m wrong and people actually enjoy sharia, religious oppression and living in fear.

  50. Bbill September 10, 2010 at 7:27 pm #

    Also, I say Bauerle is a closet case because I think he is. I hope one day that Tom comes to reconcile who he is with the angry little homophobic xenophobe that he pretends to be.

    A. straight men don’t wear their hair like that and B. also too http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8772014

  51. Rob September 11, 2010 at 8:02 am #

    Pastor Jones and Rush Limbaugh went to the same high school. So there you go.

  52. BobbyCat September 11, 2010 at 9:10 am #

    The people of Iraq might have detested Saddam, but they had electricity for most of the day, not just a few hours. Questions of liberty become academic when its 120 degrees and the frig and the fan won’t go.

    I think the larger question about Islam’s place can be deconstructed. Can we agree that most Moslems want to live in peace but that some sects, like the Wahabi, feel compelled by their reading of the Quron to kill Western infidels for Allah? And have.

  53. Michael September 14, 2010 at 4:19 pm #

    Stations such as WBEN are granted the right to use our airwaves. They serve no public good and come near to inciting violence upon my friends in the Islamic community by allowing and condoning ignorant and cowardly generalized insults toward them. I listened to his show today for a bit… That Bauerle guy thinks he made up for it by bad mouthing republicans today. You are ignorant Bauerle! In Rwanda the genocide was called for by people on the radio inciting violence. You are coming close to doing that too you sick piece of dirt. His advertisers are Attorney William Bernhardi (sic) and Rosiek’s vacuums in the Crawford Plaza on Sheridan at Sweethome — Please do not do business with these folks.

    And the key to economic development here is not water as Bauerle suggested today as he invoked the past glories of the Erie Canal. Obviously we need enough water to survive. The problem in this region is mental. We are half-full of ignorant unworldly xenophobes who are clueless about the wider world leaving us unable to sell our products to the globe and unable to allow themselves to be creative and innovative. Get a friggin passport Bauerle and come back in two years after you get educated through travel. Read Richard Florida’s “Who’s Your City.” We’re now stuck with a population half-full of the Sandy Beaches and Tom Bauerle’s of the world with no hope — so sad.

Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. Artvoice Daily » Bauerle: Now in Life & Arts - January 14, 2014

    […] WNYMedia and The Buffalo News did not write anything when Bauerle gleefully, but incorrectly reported that Americans now predominately fear the government. They didn’t write anything when Bauerle suggested that Islam is “not compatible” with Western Democracy.  […]

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