Earlier, I posted that Bass Pro was done with Buffalo altogether. I had heard it from two completely unrelated people in the past 24 hours.
Now, the News is reporting that the Aud or Donovan sites are still in play. What. The. F*ck. Ever.
Bass Pro is off the Central Wharf. That will make the preservationists jump with glee, and they can turn their attention to what, precisely, is going to go in and who’s going to build the Elmwood-sur-Lac they so desperately expect to pop up.
But they won’t. Now that this declasse hunt & fish chain retailer is gone, they won’t care anymore. I will forever believe that this wasn’t just about the size or location or design of Bass Pro’s store. It was about Bass Pro not being quite cool enough. It was also about Benderson. Benderson is the bogeyman to the so-called preservationists who apparently succeeded in chasing Bass Pro away.
Ah, but without an anchor store like Bass Pro, you’ve kissed off loads of potential national retailers who wouldn’t otherwise take a chance on downtown Buffalo. (Retail on Main Street isn’t exactly a hot commodity). Bye bye Crate & Barrel. So long, Ann Taylor. Ciao, Williams Sonoma. See ya, Starbucks. Have fun, Jamba Juice.
The preservationists claimed that they weren’t anti Bass Pro. They just didn’t like the location. But Bass Pro wanted to be on the water. So Bass Pro proposed to move it a bit to open up some parkland (because we all know how scarce parkland is on Buffalo’s waterfront). That was “pandering”. But Bass Pro had called the bluff adroitly. It quickly became evident that no waterfront site would please the “preservationists”. The store was willing to compromise; to be flexible. As is so often the case in Buffalo, the opponents had no compromise; no flexibility in mind.
I can’t say I blame Bass Pro for being done. It would have been a big draw of people and other businesses, but every direction in which it turned, it got blocked. There was absolutely no pleasing some people, and although Bass Pro was going to get its building built for it, it is probably wise in taking the millions of its own money that it would have spent on filling and marketing the store elsewhere.
Now, we are left with a chicken-egg scenario. Will Benderson build something on the waterfront there? I don’t know what its plan is without a Bass Pro. It might also pull out of the deal, and then we’ll literally be back to square one. Because that quaint waterfront brick village that Tielman and others so eagerly pointed to as preservationist nirvana ain’t gonna build itself.
So, we might have a street grid with no buildings, or we might have a street grid and buildings with retail rents too high to attract any tenants (see: Granite Works). Buffalo will have shot itself in the foot again. Isn’t the first time, won’t be the last.
Might I propose that somewhere on the property be erected a statue of Tim Tielman with the engraving, “Walden Galleria: 10 Miles”.
Given the new news, I’m not going to re-write the whole post. Suffice it to say that this is worse than any soap opera I could ever imagine. Enough.
The Buffalo Record 
Is anyone really surprised?
Why is always the FEW rule?
When is Buffalo finally going to wake up?
I can’t talk anymore, I’m just disgusted with everything Buffalo……….
The preservationists claimed that they weren’t anti Bass Pro. They just didn’t like the location.
I, for one, am not a preservationist. I’m just anti-Bass Pro.
It was about Bass Pro not being quite cool enough.
That, and the fact that it’s a Walmart sized box. But I won’t deny it was pretty embarrassing telling people that the #1 aspiration of Buffalo was to draw a hunt n’ fish store to its waterfront.
Bye bye Crate & Barrel. So long, Ann Taylor. Ciao, Williams Sonoma.
Absolutely right. I think the Crate & Barrel on Broadway in NYC is located next to a Bass Pro. There’s so much synergy that they simply can’t keep away. And Ann Taylor – I think the appeal to them is obvious. WTF? Are you serious?
They do go together, retailers of all types like to cluster together. This drives traffic to a central destination. One large anchor will bring in several small retail shops and restaurants . These shops usually are a mix of chains and local owned. All of them provide jobs and revenue as opposed to what we have now which is nothing. Give us a reason to go downtown, see the beautiful buildings AND leave some money there year round.
No anchor store, no jobs. And for everyone that thinks that these are worthless jobs, low pay etc remember most positions are entry level but can advance to a pretty good career for the individual willing to work hard. We complain that our kids leave for lack of jobs, then we run off the businesses that could provide them either their start, or let them get a foothold till they find their life’s goal, here in Buffalo maybe, instead of the carolinas.
Bass Pro now looking at Aud site
By Sharon Linstedt – News Staff Reporter
Updated: 09/06/07 6:06 PM
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The Central Wharf site is out and the Memorial Auditorium site is back in the running for a Bass Pro Outdoor World store in downtown Buffalo.
Rep. Brian Higgins Thursday confirmed planners have scrapped plans to build a 100,000-square-foot store on the historic Central Wharf site … a site strongly opposed by preservationists … and will consider building from scratch where the idle Memorial Auditorium now stands. “It’s a move of a couple hundreds yards that will give us the best of both worlds,” Higgins said. “The build-out of the historic canal district can be completed as planned and Bass Pro will be able to build a store that fits its needs.”
In March, Bass Pro and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. unveiled plans for a store directly along the Buffalo River mimicking the style of the original Central Wharf structure. The site stirred immediate opposition from preservationists because it overrode a court-approved 2004 master plan designating that land for historic and public access purposes.
Higgins said while the Aud site is considered the No. 1 alternative to the Central Wharf location, Bass Pro and planners also will give consideration to the nearby Donovan State Office Building site, and the vacant Webster Block, in front of the HSBC Arena.
A full report on Bass Pro’s decision will appear in Friday’s News.
Bass Pro now looking at Aud site
By Sharon Linstedt – News Staff Reporter
Updated: 09/06/07 6:06 PM
The Central Wharf site is out and the Memorial Auditorium site is back in the running for a Bass Pro Outdoor World store in downtown Buffalo.
Rep. Brian Higgins Thursday confirmed planners have scrapped plans to build a 100,000-square-foot store on the historic Central Wharf site … a site strongly opposed by preservationists … and will consider building from scratch where the idle Memorial Auditorium now stands. “It’s a move of a couple hundreds yards that will give us the best of both worlds,” Higgins said. “The build-out of the historic canal district can be completed as planned and Bass Pro will be able to build a store that fits its needs.”
In March, Bass Pro and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. unveiled plans for a store directly along the Buffalo River mimicking the style of the original Central Wharf structure. The site stirred immediate opposition from preservationists because it overrode a court-approved 2004 master plan designating that land for historic and public access purposes.
Higgins said while the Aud site is considered the No. 1 alternative to the Central Wharf location, Bass Pro and planners also will give consideration to the nearby Donovan State Office Building site, and the vacant Webster Block, in front of the HSBC Arena.
A full report on Bass Pro’s decision will appear in Friday’s News.
just an observation, but the opening of k-mart on astor place in the village a decade ago did pretty much coincide with the rents on avenue a going through the roof. stopped at the gander mountain store in tonawanda at 2 this afternon (thursday). the parking lot was packed and there was plenty of waiting inside. go figure, ntb.
Which is it?
http://www.buffalonews.com/258/story/156616.html
Bass Pro now looking at Aud site
By Sharon Linstedt – News Staff Reporter
Updated: 09/06/07 6:06 PM
SAVE EMAIL PRINT POPULAR Digg it del.icio.us + Larger Font Google Yahoo – Smaller Font
The Central Wharf site is out and the Memorial Auditorium site is back in the running for a Bass Pro Outdoor World store in downtown Buffalo.
Rep. Brian Higgins Thursday confirmed planners have scrapped plans to build a 100,000-square-foot store on the historic Central Wharf site … a site strongly opposed by preservationists … and will consider building from scratch where the idle Memorial Auditorium now stands. “It’s a move of a couple hundreds yards that will give us the best of both worlds,” Higgins said. “The build-out of the historic canal district can be completed as planned and Bass Pro will be able to build a store that fits its needs.”
In March, Bass Pro and the Erie Canal Harbor Development Corp. unveiled plans for a store directly along the Buffalo River mimicking the style of the original Central Wharf structure. The site stirred immediate opposition from preservationists because it overrode a court-approved 2004 master plan designating that land for historic and public access purposes.
Higgins said while the Aud site is considered the No. 1 alternative to the Central Wharf location, Bass Pro and planners also will give consideration to the nearby Donovan State Office Building site, and the vacant Webster Block, in front of the HSBC Arena.
A full report on Bass Pro’s decision will appear in Friday’s News.
http://www.wben.com/news/fullstory.php?newsid=08307
Brown: Bass Pro To Look At Aud Site Again
Thursday, September 6, 2007 09:09 PM – WBEN Newsroom
Buffalo, NY (WBEN) – Mayor Brown says he’s elated Bass Pro officials have backed away from a Central Wharf site for its downtown Buffalo store.
Brown and Congressman Brian Higgins both urged Bass Pro to look at a site other than the Central Wharf because it went against a 2004 master plan that designated the wharf’s land for historic and public access use. The March announcement also angered preservationists opposed to the plan.
Bass Pro is also looking at the DL&W Termina, the vacant Webster Block, and the nearby Donovan State Office Building. Should Bass Pro go with the Aud site, Brown says the funds are there for asbestos removal and remediation of the site to make it shovel ready for Bass Pro or any other developer who wants the site
The time tested model used to re-invigorate other urban areas depends on an anchor, if this rumor is true the preservationists have done nothing but stop the re-vitalization of the suddenly “sacred” ground.
NTB, what makes you believe that the city is in the position to refuse development (and further the re-development of an entire neighborhood) because you think a potential tenant isnt “cool enough”. Who the hell cares how cool you or anybody else thinks the store is, its progress! And stop with the big box shit- Bass Pro was not to be a big box, I love how you even through Wal-Mart for comparison. You’re argument is as thinly veiled as the preservationists, the simple fact is that elitism drives your argument. You dont like Bass Pro becuase you’re above the hunting and fishing scene.
Just get it built!
NTB:
That’s idiotic. Broadway and Houston is to Main Street in Buffalo as London is to Ulan Bator. Walden Gallleria has a Dick’s and an Apple Store. There’s your fucking synergy for you. WTF? Are you serious?
My my. Language Pundit, language. What’s your potential stake in all this that causes you to become a potty-mouth?
Bass Pro cannot fit a parking garage next to its store when it locates on the water. I just doesn’t fit. You can’t wrap it around a skyway pier as proposed- DOT would not allow it and that is why a store won’t end up along the Buffalo River. It wasn’t never going to work from the first place and this should have been seen along time ago.
Quit bashing preservationists.
Now we are going full circle -back to the aud site which has great potential for accomodating structured parking, mixing with other uses, and giving visibility to the development from the 190.
Lets just fucking get a Dollar Tree store.
Hey, BS detector: My stake in this is as a member of this community who is so sick and tired of this community being hamstrung by a loudmouth few at the expense of the less vocal many. So, take your insinuation and suck it.
Meantime…how much more delay will there be if the Aud site is indeed selected for the Bass Pro? There has to be mold remediation…these has to be asbestos removal… memorabilia, seats and other valuable artifacts have to be removed for posterity or for sale/auction to collectors. All this could have been done NOW. All this work could be underway right NOW. Instead the Aud sits mothballed and no work getting done…and if this is the site that gets chosen, then we’re looking at 2008 to seek bids, all stripping and remediation in 2008 and into 2009, the demolition and carting away the building, and then building the new Bass Pro. Anyone want to say 2011? 2012?
We’re all going to be fucking dead before ANY of this happens! What a disgrace. Another sad sad day in a lifetime of sad sad days for Buffalo.
Exactly nyc! Pundit, you are such an ass. Bass Pro moving off of the central wharf has NOTHING to do with the preservationists. The site simply could not work. Between being able to accomodate loading docks, locating on a long narrow site, to being proximate to a parking garage that was supposed to somehow be built around a skyway pier that is likely going to come down eventually anyways. People have been saying these things for months, but jerks like you have been doing nothing but brushing them off as preservationists. The bass pro idea was never a plan, it was a computer drawing, nothing was every binding and nothing was a plan. It wouldn’t have worked for the development of the whole site and now, as they seem to have finally realized, it wouldn’t work for bass pro either. If there is a site that works great for bass pro, and they want to locate to, do you really think they care what the preservations say, if the city and echdc is already giving them the money and go ahead??? If the central wharf idea actually worked, they would do it. IT DOESN’T WORK! Quit the preservationist nonsense and THINK.
Mike Hudson:
just an observation, but the opening of k-mart on astor place in the village a decade ago did pretty much coincide with the rents on avenue a going through the roof.
I don’t want to be sarcastic, but I think that the beginning of the long stock market rise and the Giuliani-fication (or the marketing thereof) of NYC had a wee bit more to do with the gentrification of the east village than the K-mart. That, and the expansion and rise to elite status of NYU. In fact, I would guess that one phrase that’s never once been uttered by a prospective homebuyer in gotham is “hey! let’s look for a brownstone near a k-mart!” And who can forget the dearly departed (disgusting) k-mart under penn station….
And remember, the rebirth of Union Square coincided with the closing of the Bradlees there, for those keep score at home. It is really difficult to remember what US was like back in those days – an amazing transformation.
Tbone:
And stop with the big box shit- Bass Pro was not to be a big box, I love how you even through Wal-Mart for comparison.
It was to be shaped like a wal-mart, like a “big box” store. Very large retail establishments with a single entrance and parking – that’s my definition of “big box.” How was / is this not one?
Broadway and Houston is to Main Street in Buffalo as London is to Ulan Bator.
I agree wholeheartedly. I just don’t understand why you claim that a hunting store would suddenly make Crate & Barrel suddenly think that Main Street is Broadway. You said it, not me.
And, btw, Dick’s is not Bass Pro.
nyu didn’t become a presitious school until the late 1990s? could’a fooled me. but what do i know. i only lived there for eight years. you’re probably right. a vacant lot covered in weeds and gravel that hasn’t had any traffic — pedestrian or otherwise — in 30 years is sure to have crate & barrel and anne taylor rushing to the scene. and if your idea of an cool/upscale store is crate & barrel you’ve completely blown your faux manhattanite cover.
BP, I leave your blog for an hour and look at all the comments now 😉 anyways, who knows what “Cash Pros” intentions are? They were offered a lot of our tax money to settle here. They do, they don’t, they do, they don’t and do again….. Are they holding out for even more of our money? You know what my daddy always says? ……….. “Shit or get off the pot!” 😉
UGH!!!
Never wanted to believe it, but Kulyk’s right. Nothing of any substance besides a tiny pedestrian bridge and some old ruins will ever sit on this “sacrosanct” land.
NTB: Wal – Mart = Bass Pro? This is a joke, right? Have you ever set foot in a BP?
good grief: “The site simply could not work. Between being able to accomodate loading docks, locating on a long narrow site,”
Then please explain to me how those giant network television trucks can get down South Park Ave to the arena and THEIR loading docks just steps away??
Safe to say, the necessary steps needed to make this a viable location would be done. garbage excuses aside.
I’m sick and tired of traveling across America and seeing what other cities have done with their waterfronts/canalsides then shaking my head at the dust/weeds/shit on the shores of Buffalo. The examples I can give would take up another post or two….including one city(Oklahoma City) which has a pleasant canalside district(Bricktown) with shops/restaurants and such sandwiched in between a minor league baseball park and a major league arena(just like Buffalo). And dare I say it, there’s also a….a…BASS PRO in Bricktown! Blasphemy! Say it ain’t so! Where was Oklahoma’s version of Tim Teilmann to blow up that project when they needed him??
There’s nothing on Canalside in Buffalo now, and thanks to “preservationists” there never will be. Mission Accomplished!
I’m damned sick and tired of going to other places in this country and seeing what they’ve done with water themed areas, only to come back here and see the same old shit.
A few more for Tbone:
The time tested model used to re-invigorate other urban areas depends on an anchor
That simply is not true. The Toronto waterfront? Where’s the anchor there? The Sobey’s in the little mall? The Montreal waterfront? The westside waterfront in Manhattan? DUMBO in NYC? Fanueil Hall? Even BP’s beloved South Street Seaport lacks an anchor store…
You’re argument is as thinly veiled as the preservationists, the simple fact is that elitism drives your argument. You dont like Bass Pro becuase you’re above the hunting and fishing scene.
My argument isn’t “thinly veiled” at all. My “elitism” isn’t the issue. It’s the “elitism” of the other retail establishments that even Buffalo Pundit is saying would sidle up next to Bass Pro. Stores locate where their demographic is going to be – and I’m not sure what other appropriate retailers would find Bass Pro to be a good match. If you want to say that’s fine, and Bass Pro will just be a stand-alone (and, yes, then look all the more like those “big box stores” I’m not allowed to mention), or simply draw an Applebees into its orbit, OK. But I am tired of this thread that goes “In opposing the hunting store, you are opposing Barnes and Noble, Crate & Barrel, and all of these other retail markers of prosperity.”
Does any one have any evidence of Bass Pro drawing the type of store that the Pundit claims it would here?
ummm, the arena’s loading docks are around the rear where they have adequate access and they are not visible. Bass Pro’s loading docks at the central wharf were programmed to be jutting out towards main street, complicated by being on what would become a major thoroughfare and light rail right of way. That was their only option since the cobblestone streets in the site plan are too narrow and have too sharp of a turning radius to accommodate 18 wheelers. These aren’t issues just being pulled out of someone’s ass. Its a major physical barrier to making the central wharf site work. And that was just one of the problems with the plan I was listing.
Mike Hudson,
nyu didn’t become a presitious school until the late 1990s? could’a fooled me. but what do i know. i only lived there for eight years. you’re probably right.
No, NYU was an OK-to-fine place in the early 90s. Things suddenly changed in the late-nineties. Believe me. I’m in the business. We keep track of this sort of thing. NYU rivals or betters Columbia in some important ways now. That definitely wasn’t the case back when I came out of high school in the early 90s. I could show this to you statistically (via admissions selectivity, among other metrics) but I don’t really have time. Trust me though – the numbers are there. And the more flush NYU became – and the richer its students – the faster the encroachments on the East Village occurred. But the rise of the DJIA and Giuliani’s clean city campaign (which brought the children of suburbia back into the city) had more to do with the change in that neighborhood.
a vacant lot covered in weeds and gravel that hasn’t had any traffic — pedestrian or otherwise — in 30 years is sure to have crate & barrel and anne taylor rushing to the scene.
No… That’s not what I said. You need to learn to read carefully. I was arguing with BP’s contention that the Bass Pro would bring those stores – not that those stores would come without Bass Pro. I don’t think they’re coming either way.
and if your idea of an cool/upscale store is crate & barrel you’ve completely blown your faux manhattanite cover.
Hmmm… Not sure what to make of this bit. I shopped there when I lived in NYC. Or I hung around the store while my wife did. Certainly seemed to be a lot of other NYers in there with us. I don’t know about “cool” or “upscale,” save for yes on both counts when it comes to the Queen City. But, again, I’m not the big Crate & Barrel fan – just the one making the guess that Crate & Barrel likely doesn’t love BP.
Definitely not a faux manhattanite, btw. Definitely a nostalgic Brooklynite.
breathe.
Assuming the buffalo news is right…
Get it done crowd: we now have a deal that *should* keep canalside alive without killing the basic spirit of the thing. so it’s okay.
Preservationists: you won; it got moved to where you wanted it AND you you cant be accused of killing the project; best possible outcome. Good deal.
Don’t spend money crowd: This will still pay the taxpayers back for itself in 3 years.
Look! We’re all winners! So we don’t need to demand the other to apologize for having their opinions now, right?
Naively,
RD
“Does any one have any evidence of Bass Pro drawing the type of store that the Pundit claims it would here?”
Feel free to head down to Auburn,NY where a Bass Pro rescusitated(sp) revitalized a virtually dead plaza.
GG -So what’s the problem? A couple of trucks a day coming into the Wharf in plain view traveling across a street with no automobile traffic is a strong reason to detonate the plan? Sigh….
Main street will have automobile traffic. And this isn’t a couple of trucks per day, this is a huge store, its trucks coming in and out all day long. Loading docks should not be at the front of a building. You don’t even see that at the most awfully designed strip malls.
Additionally, something Bass Pro is notorious for is just leaving trucks permanently idling at loading docks for storage. Its a loophole they take advantage of as a means to get around “taxable inventory.” Wouldn’t that be great.
Feel free to head down to Auburn,NY where a Bass Pro rescusitated(sp) revitalized a virtually dead plaza.
But seriously. The roster at the fingerlakes mall looks fractionally more prosperous than Main Place Mall the day before Waldenbooks closed. It may have been deader before Bass Pro, but I’m not sure this is evidence of the latter’s power as an anchor.
Starting from the Auburn precedent, perhaps Pundit should rephrase this line of his post:
Bye bye Bath and Body Works. So long, Footlocker. Ciao, JC Penney. See ya, Piercing Pagoda. Have fun, Subway.
Paul Francis:
Wow. You’re a tool right out of the box. Good on you.
If that’s true, it’s very, very sad. If the Mayor of the City decided after a “rousing” discussion with some lobbyist/activists to declare that Bass Pro could not build on the site of Bass Pro, then the whole project is doomed.
Revel all you want, but I’m curious as to what sort of retail establishment is “proven to work downtown”. Last time I walked down Main Street, even the Radio Shack was gone. There was Rainbow, a cellphone store, and the abysmal offerings in the Main Place Mall. Could you have been talking about Elmwood, which does have retail (with high turnover), and cafes and restaurants? Maybe Allen Street? Neither of them is comparable, and neither of them happened overnight.
You guys are too clever by half, and every time I did a post on this project, every time the usual suspects would come up with a new reason why Bass Pro was the devil. This time, it’s the pillars of the Skyway. To your credit, you did trot out the trucks again – and now we hear that they idle. That won’t be the big problem once the Ethanol plant goes in several yards downstream.
Maybe Ostrowski’s right. Maybe the ECHDC should shut down, and that the market be required to do the buildout of everything beyond the street grid.
Hint: the market’s already spoken. The shopping’s done in Cheektowaga and Amherst – especially the Canadian shopping.
Well, Summm-aaaaa-Bitch!!
Alan responds to BS Detector
So, take your insinuation and suck it.
This shows how much frustration there is in the area regarding our latest White Elephant. I’ve pissed BP off BAD a couple of times, and probably mildy irritate him most of the time, but I’ve never been invited to suck anything.
Then there was this
If that’s true, it’s very, very sad. If the Mayor of the City decided after a “rousing” discussion with some lobbyist/activists to declare that Bass Pro could not build on the site of Bass Pro, then the whole project is doomed.
My only response to this is: Where did Byron Brown get his degree in urban/regional planning? Oh, HE DOESN’T HAVE ONE, OR ANY EXPERIENCE WITH IT. Just the man we need to make the final decision.
To the Majority of the 30% of the registered voters that actually voted last election that put this vacuum-headed moron into the Mayor’s office—HOPE YOU’RE HAPPY NOW!!!! Well, at least he’s a Democrat, and he won’t be inviting Bush to town to give you all cooties, so you’re safe there.
This has moved from the sublime, to the ridiculous, to the pathetic. And appears to be going nowhere. If it does find a direction, it will likely be DOWN. This is truly sad. Nothing will end up getting done. And when I get home next year, Haterade and I will walk around in the gravel while I try to keep his hand off my ass.
Score one for BP though, he didn’t invite BS Detector to suck his ass. He told him to suck on his OWN insinuations. Good restraint BP.
If that’s true, it’s very, very sad. If the Mayor of the City decided after a “rousing” discussion with some lobbyist/activists to declare that Bass Pro could not build on the site of Bass Pro, then the whole project is doomed.
Hey, BS detector: My stake in this is as a member of this community who is so sick and tired of this community being hamstrung by a loudmouth few at the expense of the less vocal many. So, take your insinuation and suck it.
Looks like you are finally beginning to accept (albeit grudgingly) the facts of WNY. That’s the way things were long before you got here. Your bloviating won’t change things.
And the sooner you at least accept the way things are done here, your stress level will go down. Once your stress level goes down, you’ll begin eating less. After awhile of eating less, your ass will shrink a little. Once you’re keester reduces in size a little, you might finally be able to fit into one of those little euro-chic cars you like to post here from time to time. Win-win, except for the seat of said car.
BS : i tried to email you something but it was undeliverable. Remedy that asap. I think I might institute a policy along those lines.
Ok, but why email? Just post it here.
Ok, dunno what happened to that stupid email account but it works now. My apologies. Now go ahead & do your worst.
Pundit, after rereading that post about your keester, I realize now maybe it was a bit out of line. It was meant tongue-in-cheek and to “taunt.” But alas, I think it was mean, though mean spiritedness wasn’t intended. Please accept my humble apology.
But if you insult me, I may revert!