Bass Pro says it’s going to build on the site of the demolished Aud. 200,000 square feet. Parking underground. Building design to mimic an old structure – no suburban log cabin plaza design.
The package, you ask?
There is also talk of extending the canal up to the Bass Pro store, as well as the construction of a Canal museum and a hotel.
Outcry anyone?
Or can we get plan C off the ground?
Kthxbai.
The Buffalo Record 
Today Governor Spitzer announced among other things, I believe, a 500,000 square foot facility that would take up the northeast corner of the Aud, plus the space currently occupied by the Donovan building. I may have misheard him on the size, but the gov did mention words like “mixed-use” facility, as well as extending the canal along the path of the current Auditorium.
Doesn’t the Hamburg Drain run under the Aud? Wouldn’t that mean that the canal would be fed by a sewage system?
BBD
Family Foundation funded “Big Box Evaluator”
Does this tool help evaluate the prospects of development in downtown?
build it.
If Bass Pro is spearheading “Plan C,” where were they with the governor today? The model – is that proposed Bass Pro supposed to be a steel mill – was literally rolled from from New York just yesterday. I bet Johnny Morris hasn’t seen it yet. I bet he isn’t interested!
The preservation community’s concern is only that area within the National Register-listed, 12-acre site which already has a Master Plan that was ordered by Judge Skretney and has been approved by all relevant state and federal agencies and is funded. Until shovels are in the ground – the model shown above still contains significant aberrations from the 2004 Master Plan – the preservation will remain vigilant in seeing it through. Any violation of the letter of the law will be met with sound, and fierce, resistance.
The conference was laughable. The governor announced a hotel here, 1500 parking spaces here, LL Bean is over here, an exact copy of the CN Tower over there… Is he playing SimCity 3000?
And all the reporters oooohed and aaahed. Nary a critical question in site except, “when do the shovels get in the ground?” Heh heh.
If Johnny Morris isn’t interested, it is not because of the first paragraph of Paul Francis’ post, it’s because of the attitude that permeates the second paragraph.
I’m guessing Johnny Morrise has seen the “Welcome to Buffalo” sign, but read the fine print underneath that says, “Outsiders suck. Go away.”
That would be Paul Francis 1st post on this issue…he types faster than I do.
Funny, the project is looking more and more like Baltimore’s Inner Harbor, which Esmonde intentionally avoids comparisons to (in favor of Fells Point, which was a mismatch and silly).
The Longview shot on BRO illustrates how this project can become a connector that extends the city
Hey guys, no problem with Bass Pro locating on the Aud site. We endorsed it over the Central Wharf. Go forth!
Purely as an urban planner, I find displays like today’s press conference very, very funny. The ECHDC commissions a model, the Governor happens to be in town… hell, let’s have him “announce” a half-billion dollar architectural model…. because that’s all it is. It really is, folks. An expensive architectural model and a whole lot of speculation and not a single developer committed to undertaking it. I don’t know why people in Buffalo allow these charades to pass as news. Why don’t you and I commission a model and announce a thing or two? It has as much value.
Paul Francis — If today’s presser were the first time anyone in NY had uttered the words “Bass Pro” I would be inclined to agree with your latest post. However, it’s not the first time. This is at least plan C, and with each iteration some development immune system starts sending out white blood cells that look remarkably like your first post here.
Welcome to Buffalo. (Except you. And you. Oh, and you.)
King Spitzer’s visit to town reminds me of
“T’was the day of the King’s Castration
And the People were throwing shit at Random
But Random ducked, and the King caught a load in the face.
SHIT! cried the King
And the Countryside squatted and groaned”
Would someone, ANYONE put a freakin’ shovel in the ground and get busy before November comes and it turns to Permafrost again!!!
If I was running Bass Pro, I’d be running in any direction to GET OUT OF TOWN.
To be frank , Paul F. you sound like an arrogant asshole.
I love bringing back the canals. More canals = more waterfront. More waterfront = higher property values. I liked that feature of uniland’s outer harbor plan.
but design a flow through them or we’ll be smelling poop
The entire webcast is on Buffalo Rising – listen to it and decide for yourself whether or not Paul Francis is full of shit.
From Linstedt’s article…
“Initial environmental contracts, leading to demolition of the Aud and Donovan Building, will be issued in September. Under a preliminary timetable, both sites will be shovel-ready in mid-2009, opening the door to the start of Bass Pro construction. The earliest the store could debut is late 2010.”
Am I reading this right? Nothing will happen to the Aud until NEXT FUCKING SEPTEMBER???
Why not drag all that used furniture from the Donovan building and have a big yard sale NOW? Why not start unbolting the Aud seats and scoreboard and concession canopies and holding an auction NOW? Why not have the asbestos remediation firm begin work next Monday?
Last March we entertained our visitors from Toronto at the NCAA basketball tournament, and as we walked out of the arena to have dinner (2 miles away), I pointed at the empty lots and the shuttered Aud and PROMISED them that by the next NCAA event, in March of 2010, that it will all be different. That it will be an amazing streetscape to enjoy and savor.
Well if we believe today’s timetable… and I am guffawing with skepticism, then for NCAA 2010 it will be the same od shit… fans and visitors can hop in the Metrorail and head up to Chippewa and Allentown, staring at the boarded up buildings and the empty windswept streets during the ride up. What a fucking disgrace!
The sales tax revenue is lucky if it covers what rent would normally be on a property like this. It is a financial loser for the taxpayers and a financial gain for Bass Pro. $35 million subsidy plus rent subsidy for 49 years = approximately $200 million in subsidies over the course of the deal.
I wonder how much of that $45M would be spending that would not have otherwise occurred elsewhere in Erie County. Half sounds too high. If it’s 20% for example, then the increased sales tax revenue would be a little less than $1M/year.
I’ve no idea if 20% is a good guesstimate, but when weighing project benefits vs subsidies etc., there’s a big difference between new tax revenue vs shifted tax revenue. Their reputation certainly implies they’ll draw a higher portion of out-of-town customers than would most stores – but by itself that’s not all that meaningful.
Not a big deal, but isn’t this “Plan D”?
A: Inside refurbished Aud
B: On site of sacred pretend-historic green space
C: A bit south of “B”, to try shutting up Tielman
D: This one
“The sales tax revenue is lucky if it covers what rent would normally be on a property like this. It is a financial loser for the taxpayers and a financial gain for Bass Pro. $35 million subsidy plus rent subsidy for 49 years = approximately $200 million in subsidies over the course of the deal.”
So what? That property is currently paying no rent and generating zero tax dollars. ANY rent and ANY tax income from that spot will be a a gain.
Just build it already. And Andrew’s right, work should start THIS autumn, not next (or at the very least, the first 45-degree day in March).
Andrew K said:Am I reading this right? Nothing will happen to the Aud until NEXT FUCKING SEPTEMBER???
And this SURPRISES YOU? You live in WNY for God’s Sake. Now everyone needs to sit down and see who needs to get bribed, how many relatives of the principals and their friends in construction/demolition/landclearing need jobs, the union officals need to get their hands greased, etc etc. Before you can even THINK
of getting anything done.
Linstedt’s article today clarifies this September thing…
“Initial environmental contracts, leading to demolition of the Aud and Donovan Building, were issued in September. Under a preliminary timetable, both sites will be shovel-ready in mid-2009, opening the door to the start of Bass Pro construction.”
Evidently the contractors are on board, but I still beg the question, why not begin work now.
And speaking of Linstedt, why does she feel so compelled to go running to Tim Tielman to get his fresh opinion on things. If everyone stops running to him to fellate him and curry his favor this douchebag goes away. Why doesn’t she want to quote ME? Is his opinion more important than mine?
I have said it before and will say it again. THIS AIN’T HAPPENING! And my message to sports fans, arena patrons, and NCAA 2010 visitors is this… hop in your car, get on the I-190 on ramp to Cheektowaga and head on out to the Walden Galleria. We have shopping, restaurants, and entertainment. Our new faux Main Street is taking shape nicely, Cheesecake Factory and Bravo now open and much more to come. And folks, it is happening NOW, cranes are in the air and shovels are in the ground NOW. Cheektowaga is the epicenter of WNY retail and will be forever and ever. Bass Pro, cmon out here we’ll find a place for you too!
Andrew Kulyk, this plan gets better and better only because of Tim Tielman and his group as well as the many organizations that have signed on to his call to move forward with the 2004 Master Plan as is. This latest Bass Pro iteration may some way to go, but it represents clear progress in response to the concerns of preservationists. I’m sure there’s some folks who think the steel mill-esque design of the Bass Pro that *may* begin construction two or more years from now is silly – I’m among them – but let’s me clear: this is not a design or a construction rendering. That is years out. This is only a concept being put forth. The location is sound, the silly design will likely be redesigned several more times, and the idea of logically extending the canalways uncovered due to Tielman’s activism, is all great.
We’re at this point, and Quinn is making this much better (though imperfect) proposal, only because of Tim and his supporters. Is his opinion worth more than yours? Absolutely!
Mr. Paul Francis said: “We’re at this point, and Quinn is making this much better (though imperfect) proposal, only because of Tim and his supporters. Is his opinion worth more than yours? Absolutely!”
Only because of Tim? ONLY? Some might argue that there are not shovels in the ground and cranes in the air “only because of Tim.”
Preservation-minded folk rightly have a role in this process, but don’t discount the voices of others who may think differently. Doing so leaves the rest of us with the impression that there there is only Tim’s way of doing things.
Let me ask you, Paul Francis, will a plan for this area ever be “perfect?” Is that the threshhold that must be reached before construction can begin? If that’s the case, we really are doomed.
Your level of arrogance gets worse with each post.
Steve, here’s some more arrogance for your entertainment.
Things will get underway so long as, within the 12-acre Erie Canal Harbor urban renewal district, everything proposed development is done according to the letter of the law; i.e. Judge Skretney’s order, the FEIS, the City of Buffalo’s Urban Renewal Amendment for the district, the Secretary of the Interior Starndards for treatment of historic properties, and ultimately the 2004 Master Plan which is guided by these legal foundations. Yesterday the ECHDC promised it would follow the law, implement the 2004 plan, and expand upon the 2004 plan through adjacent development and logical extensions of the infrastructure already planned for the site.
So no, Steve, the unattainable standard of “perfection” is not what’s being sought, just a follow-through on a simple promise from Quinn, made yesterday, and the fulfilment of the notion that we actually implement our plans, not let them sit follow along dust-covered shelves. If we do that, it’s good news for all of Buffalo.
Oh and Steve, Larry Quinn rightly noted that cranes are already in the air, constructing a rewatered Commercial Slip, a new naval museum modelled after the Coit-McCutheon Block, a facsimilie Whipple Truss Bridge, and soon the reconstruction of historic granite block streets throughout the Canal District. That would not have come about were it not for Tim Tielman’s leadership and the persistence of his many, many followers.
Carpenters have an old saying, “Measure twice and cut once”.
Our harbor is a pretty darned important piece of wood. I don’t mind waiting while our process measures that piece of wood a few extra times.
I’m glad to see that there is plenty of input and debate over the plans and over the deal. Take your time and get it right.
Buf Blo… How’s about another 50 years? Enough time?
And Paul… on 330 days of the year your truss bridge, Coit Mccutcheon museum, rewatered slip, pretty grassy knolls and foundation ruins will sit empty, windswept, quiet and devoid of life and activity.
What will work, along with all this heritage tourism stuff, are hotels, residences, restaurants, shopping, entertainment and commerce.
Never mind, my opinion doesnt matter.
With that many different govt planners and regulators overseeing the details, it’s sure to be a huge economic success! If I were a retail exec deciding whether to locate a store down in that little Zone of Plans, Amendments, and Interior Dept Standards vs. say the Galleria which is generally free of govt micromanagement, I would choose… hmmmm… decisions, decisions…
“And my message to sports fans, arena patrons, and NCAA 2010 visitors is this… hop in your car, get on the I-190 on ramp to Cheektowaga and head on out to the Walden Galleria. We have shopping, restaurants, and entertainment. Our new faux Main Street is taking shape nicely, Cheesecake Factory and Bravo now open and much more to come. And folks, it is happening NOW, cranes are in the air and shovels are in the ground NOW. Cheektowaga is the epicenter of WNY retail and will be forever and ever. Bass Pro, cmon out here we’ll find a place for you too!”
this is idiotic. cheektowaga is the biggest shithole in WNY with weird scum-bags and the only reason it has any money is because of Canadian shoppers. this is not a reasonable solution to problems in the city and it is not this cultural mecca you make it out to be. cheesecake factory? are you kidding me? it is an overpriced chain, maybe a little change of pace from tgi fridays but the city of buffalo has far more culinary gems than_cheesecake factory_ it’s all about the mall, that’s it. i think it’s fine that we have our main large mall outside of the city but don’t make it out to be something that it’s not. everyone seems to get so excited when we get a store they’ve visited in some other state, but restaurant chains are not a substitute for real development in our CITY. don’t you all say you’re from buffalo when you go out of town despite living in the suburbs? it’s time everyone made the city a priority with real quality development or we could put a casino in cheektowaga.
Isn’t anyone questioning the rosy sales tax revenue numbers being bandied about in the Buffalo News for the Bass Pro?
Look, .0875(x)= $4,000,000.
Therefore, (x), the gross sales
for the store would need to be: $45,714,285 per year. Which works out to $125,244 in retail sales
a day. Draw your own conclusion.
I think Bass Pro (a private company) should release its financial statements to anyone in Buffalo who asks for them. I don’t know whether or not they’ve already made their books public. I think too much public money
is going toward this deal and the promises being made are unrealistic. The sales tax figure, dubious as it is, seems to be just the company’s gross sales divided by the number of stores. All the outlets comparable? How much of their sales come from the internet?
Read about another city’s experience with Bass Pro:
OKC’s Bass Pro sales fall short of consultant projections
Journal Record, The (Oklahoma City), Apr 19, 2005 by Brian Brus